The fact that Restrain has a chance of triggering is pretty bad too, it happens so inconsistenly for me that I ended up not even noticing it did while on the heat of battle while there’s skills that do it’s work and I can tell because I know I’m going to get it unless it misses.
Okay, I can see how, because of this. It is bad as a standalone skill. Still pretty confident however, that it works well in conjunction with double weapon assault. So I guess it depends on your perception. Generally, it’s a bad skill. But for pvp corsair, i’d say it’s more desirable than the alternatives. With 2hsword not being suitable for corsair and the taunt only being good for the attribute as far as pvp is concerned. And I know this guide doesn’t cover PVP, but it’s just that OP made a note to point out that restrain is bad even for that, so that’s why I asked.
Well, thing is, for PvP you want to be as sure as possible that you get your effects going off as unreliable things can easily mean a waste that ends in an earlier death compared to the assured option.
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While overall, I’m aware Rodelero isn’t that great, with the right skills and build, High Kick is really a force to be reckoned with. C3 is definitely in the “Decent” category, if you look at it on its own. Shooting Star isn’t bad either. It’s a cheaper Stabbing with less CD (overheats, so a total of 8 hits) and the only reason Stabbing is so good is because of the multiple hits.
Also, while it will take R7, pairing rodel 3 with Fencer lets you boost both Strike and Slash skills, thanks to Lunge, which just so happens to be 90% of your skill set. For the same reason, Barb C1 has more synergy with Rodel 3 than Hop C1. And then you can “armor break” for Pierce moves too with Attaque Coquille, so even your Fencer skills wont be left behind.
Armor Break isn’t overestimated in the slightest. Defense has a significant impact on your damage if said defense is high enough. Removing it completely is pretty good.
Completely agree on C2 and 3 of Swordsman though. Pommel Beat and Double Slash’s bonus damage is a flat damage boost with no scaling at all, Thrust’s bleeding is terrible, hitting every 2 seconds for 5 seconds (so just two hits!), and Restrain’s stun doesn’t even function properly, it won’t activate stun-related bonuses on other skills.
Not really, even with double weapon assault, you need to catch the target within your auto attack range first, and even then, it has 40% chance per hit, not 80% chance combined. Heck, if you can catch them within your range, throw the hook would be much much more reliable.
Strange I havent seen the most common of all in that guide.
Swordman - Highlander - Barb c3 - Doppel
New skills in Barb c3 are not good, but lets you put more points into Seasm, Warcry, HelmChopper, Cleave, for better output damage.
I’m guessing by how you’re vastly overestimating the benefits range provides, you haven’t actually played anything other than swordsman. As someone who’s gotten both swordsman and archer to rank 6, let me tell you something important.
Range does not provide a substantial benefit
Not even in pve
There are things, contrair to common belief. That archer and mage have going for them. But range is not one of them. (especially if you’re using crossbow, which most archers do because of arde). Without C3 quarrel running shot, a ranged character cannot maintain distance and keep an offensive at the same time, and even with running shot there is still the issue that
- The majority of the skills force stop the archer (this goes even moreso for bunny hopping mages)
- Dash can catch up to anything.
This apparent hypothetical that you’re bringing up in this (and other) threads where a ranged character can just kite a swordsman all day until they both run out of stamina cant happen when the swordsman can move twice as fast. Maybe chronomancer C3 can pull it off with lv15 slow and lv10 haste , but even then there’s still other gap closers like the ones I mentioned earlier.
and yes I know double weapon assault isn’t 80% combined, but when you can land around 5 hits P/S, and the fact that it’s easier to hitlock other classes that don’t have concentrate, the odds of procing are significantly high.
I´ve did a C3 sword and dueled a lot recently to test it for pvp purposes. I think it´s not worth (at least till we get more ranks), because right now Restrain is more like a mini stagger for 0.5s and has an internal cooldown so “stunlock” is not possible. When trying to use it with a skill (ie. Stabbing) it stunned in the first hit for 0.5 and then the enemy just jumped out of the skill. So we can´t even rely on it to land a full long duration skill…
I think for PVP it´s better to get Barb or Rodelero if you want stun. At least on duels I´ve found more sucess landing a big stun and then a big burst than trying to auto attack for a mini stun that don´t let do almost nothing in that window.
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Ah, sounds like a sensible answer, thank you. 
Too lazy to go test right now, but I believe it’s % of your attack power AND get better scaling per level as well.
My lv 170 Squire was doing about 500~ damage per bleeding tick.
Do you have any early thoughts on dragoon?
let me fix that for you
“This is very important: EVERY SINGLE BUILD IS VIABLE IN PVE”
Fixed also this guide seems to be based on pve i don’t know if i missed where you said that or not but swordsman c2c3 actually add alot to pvp.
Mmmm if i want go highlander c2 +barbc2 + doppel for pvp do you think worth? or is better Highlander c3 and barb c2
That build is the one on Tier 3: “Swordsman -> Highlander C3 -> Doppelsoeldner” which “Can pick up any class to fill the missing Rank (Peltasta, Squire, Barbarian, Rodelero)”.
In your case, you are filling your missing rank with Peltasta, and you are looking to finish at Rank 7 with Templar.
Tiers go from top to bottom, so the “best” tier is 1. This, however, doesn’t mean there is a big difference between the builds in different tiers, it is simply that the builds at higher tiers might have some extra benefits that put them 1 step above the other builds.
You are correct, when you use a Rapier without a shield you gain an increase of 15% extra damage on Pierce attacks (doesn’t include auto-attacks).
Which to be honest, isn’t as bad to lose when you are going tank, as shield provides a lot of utility.
Yeah, taunt makes life so much easier. That is why I always recommend Peltasta for builds.
However, it is still possible to tank without taunt. It is of course more tedious, as the Swordsman has to move to the mobs first, then deal damage to trigger aggro. While taunt simply does it with 1 button.
@aktwithhonor
You can find a little more about how Bleeding interacts with your damage here: https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/damage-guide-the-big-formula-modifier-types-and-how-they-interact
But tl;dr it increases with the skill attack and your physical attack.
This is taking into consideration what we currently have in iCB2. But, it is to my understanding that Swordsman skills where not moved in the recent Korea patch, as they had been already moved previously.
Jariu really hits the spot on Restrain. To expand a little more on it:
Restrain isn’t really a stun, it is a 0.5 second interrupt and it has an internal cooldown of 1.0 to 1.5 seconds from my testings. This means that you can’t chain-stun your opponent.
So let’s say you manage to stun your opponent, then after 0.5 seconds they can jump and move again, and you can’t stun them again until the internal cooldown is gone, and even then 0.5 seconds isn’t enough for you to cast something like Stabbing.
For PvP, you want things that hit fast and hit hard (and if they stun, even better), you want stuff that stays with the opponent like Bleeding and Armor Break, as well as real, hard CC.
This means skills like Helm Chopper, Seism, Dust Devil, Cross Cut, Skull Swing, Iron Hook, Pouncing, Giant Swing, Umbo Blow, Montano, Targe Smash, Shield Bash, etc.
Edit: Just read luizservando_junior’s reply, who also explain this very well.
Oh, High Kick -> Targe Smash is definitely something that hits very hard.
The problem is that it is at Rank 6. I would actually prefer if Rodelero was available at Rank 3 instead, that way C3 would be at Rank 5 and the build could get something like Fencer or Doppelsoeldner at Rank 6, and could keep on getting better for Rank 7.
That is because that build isn’t as good as the ones listed.
You have massive power with Barbarian C3, but it goes to waste if you don’t have Swash Buckling to efficiently use said power.
I need to see numbers first. I have seen the skill animations, but I have to see actual numbers (and attributes) to start theorycrafting about possible builds.
Right now, I think that Hoplite->Doppel->Dragoon is probably going to be the best build for it.
Yeah, it is said multiple times during the post that it is only about PvE. You can see more about the Swordsman C2 and C3 discussion the posts above.
I think it is an interesting build.
Probably Highlander C3 + Barbarian C2 is better, since you get Bleeding, Armor Break, Seism, Helm Chopper, Frenzy, etc. Then you could finish with Barbarian C3 for Pounching and Giant Swing, or Doppel, but I think that Cyclone is easily kited in PvP, unless you have a movement speed buff.
But like I said, I think trying to figure out PvP builds right now isn’t that much of a good idea, because we don’t really know what PvP will look like. But yes, taking stuff that hits fast and hard, and good CCs is a good way to start for sure.
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thx kate for your feedback.
i think it’s becoming more of a surety that i’m dumping necro to go for swordman tree because sorc + necro seems no longer feasible since some of the skills in sorc got pushed to c2.
so definitely going to commit to a swordsman build, but i have nearly to no experience in the beta, cause i spent my time playing a pryomancer.
Anyway from what i read, people commented that for swordman class to not spend any points at all in con, and just go all dps.
i wouldn’t mind going tank either, but from the sound of it, nobody is really saying much good things about the tank builds.
so your idea that all swordman class are tanks and can simply swap to shield when needed, seems like a good idea. so i can still use shield when needed, but focus more on dps since thats the only build that seems worth using atm until peltasta gets better. you even mentioned c2 high guard not worth it (which i was interested at first because i tend to lean tank).
Anyway rethinking my plans i’m now between
Swordsman -> Peltasta -> Barbarian C3 -> Doppelsoeldner
and
Swordsman -> Peltasta -> Barbarian C3 -> Fencer
but the first option i can use 2hd for dps, then swap to 1hd sword + shield when i need to right? just to confirm.
also any suggested skill build for it, sorry i really would know what to get, total nub X_X:
Yeah just saying personally I wouldn’t take a swordsman without taunt in my party. Not worth the risk and hassle ;p
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Yeah, all the Barbarian and Doppelsoeldner skills can be used with a 2H Sword or a 1H Sword+Shield. Same on Fencer, with Rapier+Dagger or Rapier+Shield.
I think you didn’t properly link your build, so I will just leave these here:
Swordsman->Peltasta->Barbarian C3->Doppelsoeldner
Swordsman->Peltasta->Barbarian C3->Fencer
On both builds you have 5 free points to spend on any skill you want at Barbarian. And on Swordsman I put Bash on 3 so you can get the attribute, but if Skill Reset is available you can lower it to 1 (after getting the attribute) and then put the rest on Pain Barrier.
thx so much, and just in case, what would you have in mind for a
Swordsman->Peltasta->highlander C3->Doppelsoeldner
because from the way people say it, the only armor break options is either high lv pelt or a highlander, and the later being the preferred method to get it.
also that it makes a big difference against world bosses.
not to mention that highlander skills doesn’t seem to be dependent on 2hd weapons, whereas barbs are.
so my usage with 1hd sword + shield will be much more limit using barb build since the skills mostly maximize 2hd weps. so only time i use shield is temporary as a tank if there is no other in the grp, or to avoid a big hit i can’t dodge (most likely aoe in a boss fight).
whereas highlander i can use either 2hd or 1hd with shield and have access to all my skills without being limited to what i’m currently using in my hand.
Neither barb or hl have many skills that specifically require 2H swords. I can only think of Highlander’s Crossguard
And that’s why, if you’re making a damage based rodel, you get Pelt 1 Barb 1 for the multitude of Strike based skills. Especially Umbo Blow and Helm Chopper 
And Montano is a 100% stun for Cleave, whereas Helm Chopper is RNG.
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oops my mistake then