Phase one “it’s not a hack, it’s a game feature” (debunked).
Phase two “cheating is good”( fail)
Phase Three ? insults? it always end in insults.
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Just because it exists, does not justify the action. And it does not mean you should do it. “Oh, there are so many murderers in the world… you can’t avoid it! Accept the truth and join the murders!” << This is practically what you guys who try to justify the cheats are saying.
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Not trying to disagree, but just saying while I never enhanced anything higher than +14 via normal anvils, Trans 10 is possible through grinding saalus all day.
With that said I get what you mean. I took 2 months to get Trans 10 on weapon (a lot of alts to grind saalus) and saw a player I know who just joined get Trans 10 on weapon and armor in 2 weeks. He quit soon after though.
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That’s another issue of RMT/cheats and etc. Making an easy game easier than it is with cheats = losing your own motivation to keep playing.
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My example was actually implemented in my country and rise in inflation is just around the corner. It is easy to say you dont want, but bribery and power play sometimes will win over fantasy. Not all institutions and organizations are ideal same goes to nations and not all people in power are good. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupt absolutely.
Fantasy = Expecting that leaders are always siding with lesser evil.
Reality = Corrupt leaders in power. You can use your imagination how these people work. Like for example justifying evil as justice/have moral high grounds.
Ukraine and Venezuela are also good example of corruption and power play. Even thanks giving of U.S is actually a celebration of slaughtering the native Americans. Hiring and pardoning the scientists who experimented and massacred the innocent people of Manchuria. Great leap forward, cultural revolution. Yasukuni shrine. Everyone have skeletons on their closet. To be honest if you actually force your morals and justice it will lead to war, because everyone have their own selfish meaning to the words morality and justice. Diplomacy is always the best, even with microscopic level like IMC.
Im not justifying evil lol. All im saying is that Justice is nothing if you dont have skills or power. If you dont want these people taking over you then you need skills or power or influence to counter them. Plagiarism is not ok if you found them, if you cant find them then it is ok, thats the mentality of people doing that and how the world works. If you cant stomach that then you need skills to identify these plagiariser. Same goes to Sorien. Talking morality with them will bring nothing. They will just stay silent until you found them.
Nope, thats bad practice lol. Because it is better to identify these problems before someone with evil intentions do. Big companies like Microsoft, google or anyone smart enough always hiring hackers on their ranks to identify these problems first, financial institutions like banks do that. You cant say sorry if someone freaking hack your banking system and stole all your money. Stories like Microsoft rewarding hackers who can find loop hole in windows 10 are so common. They do this because it is better to find it first before lots of people will sue them because of security breach.
What we have here instead was talking morality to a hacker who only do what hackers are supposed to do.
If that still hard to understand then try to view Sorien as Kurama from Naruto series. If youre an insightful leader what you gonna do? You have 3 options. Kill it, let it be, capture it. Minato captured it because maybe in the future it can be useful for Konoha. It killed many innocent people but his insight tells him to capture it because he trusted his son that sometime in the future he can control it and will give benefits to Konoha. Justice said you must kill it. Reality kicks in, the U.S pardoned all the scientist who committed atrocities to innocent people in unit 731, because they have valuable information that could be use for themselves or maybe for humanity.
This will only apply to common and weak people. Reality says otherwise. Sometimes a burglar is more valuable than the victim itself.
late replay because of real life matters.
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Thanks for the valuable and insightful post.
It is rather sad that in reality, having power equates to almost everything. Which is why a number of players choose to dive into games, where in the virtual world there are less forces at work to to skew the “fairness” they crave for which is lacking in reality.
Agree that forcing own brand of morals and justice will always lead to wars. History has taught us much, and even till now such wars are still on-going in our world, like control over Gaza so on and forth.
Agree, each and everyone has their own views on the matter and no amount of convincing will change their views. It is only the people in power (IMC) who can actually do something.
What you are describing here is actually the ideal for cyber security. Proactive security will always win out when compared to reactive security, but due to the costs involved it is mostly practiced only by corporations that can actually provide the needed manpower and resources.
Sadly IMC isn’t big like Microsoft or Google. Not even 1/100000 the size of them. As much as the developers want to, with a company that small they just can’t spare that many resources to plug all potential loopholes where hackers may/can use to exploit the game. IMC could if they want, but most likely the added costs will trickle down to us consumers, which is also a huge no to them since the game is designated as a freemium type of game.
This is why Google launch Project Zero, an initiative led by white hats to find bugs and loopholes in systems of other companies. They will then ask the companies to fix them, often with a 90 day grace period before disclosure.
It applies to everything. An A is an A, how power (other external forces) corrupts it to morph into another form is another matter.
Your reply isn’t late so no worries haha, always good to have posts like these to think about. :3
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Sorry for picking on small parts and messing up the fun but…
Hacker vs Cracker:
Hacker - Person with good knowledge at programming and computer stuff.
Cracker - Person with good knowledge at programming and computer stuff that goes on stealing stuff, breaking into stuff to steal or get benefits out of it.
It’s like the skill of lock picking: You either use it to help people when paid for emergencies or you use for breaking into someone’s home to steal stuff.
If you’re caught: Good luck and better have money to pay you way out or something. No amount of “I’m doing what someone with good knowledge at lock picking is supposed to do” alone will get you free.
It’s the same excuse with hacker vs cracker definitions: Having knowledge doesn’t mean you should use it to break laws.
Yeah, cracking activities are against laws.
As well: No amount of “the government is corrupt” will make it ok for you to steal/rob people of their stuff.
As well: No amount of “the people in power are corrupt” will make it ok to hack banking systems and steal money.
If you’re talking about the end-costumer it’s somewhat different. The individual alone might not have big power but they can try means of getting law to work via some entities.
But I’ll take that you’re talking about the bank itself. Yeah, you get a hell of a problem of trying to mess up with it if you get caught, good luck trying to pick fights with big ones.
Also, as well that would be the case. But in reality on power hierarchy there will be entities with responsibility of keeping things in check and making sure some policies and laws are effective.
And: No no no no no.
Small cheating child’s play with lua code injection where you have free access to all game code in a thing with such a low security is nowhere near ancient strong monster with power and knowledge.
If we’re comparing things, compare it the right way.
Sorien isn’t the really good hacker who is breaching into Google’s security and getting rewarded for it for knowledge. He’s the cracker picking into easy stuff to get easy money and some fun.
This entire thing is like the guy in a small supermarket stealing something worth 10 cents and still gets caught. And despite being punished keeps going to the same store and trying to now steal stuff that costs 20-30 cents to get caught again.
In the end there’s a truth: “The small supermarket does not have a government/military grade security.”
And here’s another truth: “It isn’t needed nor viable, it’s just a fuggin small company against someone with too much free time and nothing else to do.”
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Don’t pick too much on him or he will acquire a trauma of rabbits and start killing the ones being raised at school lol.
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Lets say you dont wanna call Sorien as hacker because of your own definition, and you dont wanna others doing bad stuffs. Do you think they will stop because you say so? Lets also say youre morally right, so what? They will stop now because you tink youre right? Thats the point of what you quoted. You gave definition instead for what? What you said already had been said by Nekorin so youre pretty much wanna go in circle like you always do.
It is obvious that someone will after you if you do that. Also not all people can get back what they lost, individual or the bank itself. Since you dont know again what you quoted. The sentence was meant to be a reply from Nekorin that he wanted to wait until someone will hack you before you patch things out. It is not about someone you gonna call if youre hacked or your bank hacked but which is better: Prevention or Cure? So your comment is out of place?
Since you probably didnt know too. Nekorin replied that IMC is not big enough to apply this method because maybe theyre out of funds. Which i think is a valid reply and holds some ground. Yours is out of place? Like you always do?
Thats what I meant? That both exist? Thats why if you cant stomach the bad guys
then you need skills and power? Not just morals?
Your example is more out of place than mine. Majority of small time thief in supermarket always get caught. Sorien is freaking profiteering from the game for how long already? You only fix what he presented. If he didnt released them then youll not know. If he didnt released them, then youre clueless.
More like Sorien is the rapist raping your mother while her children watch. Her children are so angry they wanna cry justice. But since IMC is the mother. IMC said instead that “IMC is born to make Sorien happy” while he continuously exploiting your mother until she bore 2 children(2yrs) from Sorien already.
Yea thats why we let him be and talk morality on his face hoping in the future he will stop.
I’ll sum up my answer with one sentence since you have the same recurring misinterpretation of how programming works:
“Go learn to code then come back to talk.”
If you’re talking about security stuff outside of gaming and/or outside of ToS and/or unrelated to the exploit this topic is about. Please go use the off-topic section or another forum.
Then go read more:
Sorien lives on Los Angeles and so he’s breaking laws in United States. That’s nothing about morals: They’re just being a criminal - and that’s not cool. Period.
I love rabbits. Sometimes theyre much smarter than humans including you. I can depend rabbits position if theyre really smarter than you.
I have to learn coding first before I can argue to some people talking about morality on a hacker? And I have to learn coding first before I can voice out to IMC that they need to step up and demand better service? If you criticize IMC that they have so many exploits in the game and making people leave is not valid?
Example is an Example. You can use them as tools to strengthen your criticism in the game. It is not off topic whatsover.
I think any animal is smarter than humans, including (specially) you. lol
Also, you can say all you want about real life being cheating and robbery, but that is how some people decided to go.
The people in power is corrupt, at least most of them, and they keep going because ignorant people, like you, decided that it’s the way of the world, instead of say enough, lets change this.
Here on Brazil is the same, people complain but no one do a thing to change the situation.
When one or two say it’s wrong lets change, the rest simple say, it won’t work, you should quit it.
Let’s keep the world moving, oh wait, it does move on it’s own, it’s just us who stay in the same place forever.
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No. I’ll make it even more clear as the last posts:
It’s because you have no idea how software works and how bugs works. Go learn. Thanks.
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Why dont you apply what you preach then and start the change yourself? It is easy to say or maybe you want someone to do your ideals while why you sit on a couch thinking if youre smarter than a rabbit?
Im actually doing what youre thinking here in the forum, telling that this should be stop and improve. It has been more than a year already and no one is doing their homework in IMC. Being a small company is not a reason to let Sorien be. The fact that he has been around tells the whole story that no one is starting the change or improve.
Brazil is actually expected to be a major economy by 2050 as long as you did exactly what youre currently doing. Meaning if your current country is corrupt you can just stay the same because it is maybe your engine of growth. Being corrupt is not a bad thing depending on your perspective. What is important if your country is improving or not. If you cant progress using upright means then maybe being corrupt can lead to progress. Likewise if youre advocating upright means youre counter productive to progress hence you needed to be eliminated for greater good of all.
I beg to differ. IMC has been working to improve the game and also resolve the bugs as they surface over the past couple years.
Setting up a security team to proactively look for potential bugs and exploits requires lots of money. A small department of 5 people with an annual salary of 100k each eats up half a million a year. How does a small company find such resources to commit to this?
Trickle the costs down to players? How many TP packages do you think they need to sell in order to break even for this?
Resolving bugs as they surface is much more cost efficient.
One of the alternatives proposed is to strike up a deal with Sorien to stop this once and for all, after all he just wants money. Do you really think that hackers would just stop and not return under another alias? Similar to what shady corporations do when they are brought to light, they just rebrand themselves as another name and carry on as per usual. A no go for this.
A much better alternative is to approach the problem by reducing the number of players who chose to use such exploits and cheats in the first place; similarly to how governments in reality employ to their citizens, by punishments, limits of use and education. Punish those who commit the act, limit the people’s access to means of the act and educate the people that such acts are not accepted.
For iToS, punishment is easy, just ban and it’s done. What is not easy is how to limit access or use of such programs/exploits. Unlike kToS, iToS accounts are tied to Steam account, users can create as many Steam accounts as they want. This makes banning accounts have much lesser impact since players can just sign up another account easily if they get banned.
This is why I’m been trying to suggest to IMC to consider adding another line of security, like 2FA. Google has provided an authentication system (Google Authenticator) which is suitable for this. It is quite universal (has a wide range of applications using it) so IMC don’t really need to reinvent the wheel (as in make they own authenticator) With each account tied to a mobile number + requiring 2FA to login and play, account bans become much more effective and can finally act as a deterrent against players wanting to exploit.
With this in place together with the players promoting to others why exploiting bugs/loopholes isn’t really accepted in the game, it becomes much easier to lower the number of exploiters. Lower the demand and supply will drop in accordance too.
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@ sorien I hope you do realize that you’re gaining unlawful profit from the game by purposely finding the bugs to make your hacks (hook64) and selling it to players. And I hope you do realize that you’re committing a copyright infringement. Stop blaming imc for all this “incompetence” bs excuse that you’ve been telling to people just to sell your product.
THE USE OF THE GAME IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK for anyone that doesn’t know, before you made an account you agreed that this game as is, but that doesn’t mean that you can make profit under a copyright company without their permission. Sorien for all you know you’re destroying the game and making the company lose profit by disorienting players/future customers lose interest to even try to play the game and you are gaining unlawful profit at the same time. Don’t make so much excuses to justify your actions because it incriminates you even more. I hope imc will see this comment and take all the unlawful profit you gained from their company back.
Just so you know, this is not the first time he exploited flaws in games to earn money. Dude has been doing this for ages, and it earns him enough money to warrant his behavior because idiots keep paying him money.
As I said earlier, he’ll probably do well if he is in the field cryptanalysis, but chose to do this instead.
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Other companies can do as much as to make their game less exploitable, you gotta wonder why this game is different. No need to be super rich just do your job. If there was changes those arent enough at least for me. Inconvenience caused by them are big enough to make people leave. Thats about 2 yrs of slowly killing your game.
Among the online games I played, this game is by far the most exploitable. TOS devs are really incompetent. You can even buy the app to exploit the game in the open. This is also the first time from my experience that a hacker is so well known in a game I play.
Striking deal from a hacker is only an opinion. You also gave yours then good. If current things stay the way they are then more people will constantly leave or if your fix was somewhat implemented and cheaters are still so rampant like now then maybe suggest another method to find the right fix? Thats better than morality sht. The best still IMC employees can find most of these exploits themselves, rather than waiting until some hackers like Sorien do the bad things. If Sorien can find them easily because maybe he is trash. Then IMC can find them as well.
So far it is landslide victory for Sorien. He got tons of money already and still getting more. You can brand Sorien any words you want but that fact will not change. It will change only until IMC can find most of their bugs.
I would say, if the players wants this game stay for more years the players needs to step in and start boycotting this guy and please to the players that keep on bitching how this game is made please next time you find a new game make sure you read everything before you click agree or else you have no right to complain. I know a lot of people really wants to make this game succeed but ending up being bitter over some issues YES it is a concern but then again the root of the problem are not the bugs it self, it is the person who purposely finds them and exploits them making profit in real life from it.
Actually. GO FUGGIN LEARN TO CODE. Stop trying to talk stuff you don’t know.
The way the game loads and allows the user to run any arbitrary lua code is the source of all evil. To change that they need to change a good part of the engine plus they break addons that are part of the community culture atm, they’d need to cover a lot of the features to prevent backlash from disallowing all addons.
It was bad planning and it’s too late to put too much resources on fixing that for now, you gotta pick: either move forward or stop in time while people will complain non-stop for new content.
Now if you don’t know nothing in technical behaviors of the game, stop saying it’s easy or don’t cost too much.
Most of other games simply doesn’t go that way and sometimes add proper addon support for devs that isolates stuff.
Are we clear now that you’re literally talking bs that doesn’t make any sense?