Tree of Savior

Remove Goon and Murm Helm from the game


Hello -

With re:build coming you have an opportunity to remove one of the most clunky mechanics in the game, and that is Goon and Murm helmet(Cassis Crista).

All these skills do is force the player to hit a button to put a helmet on that boosts damage and/or defense. Just make these attributes of the class itself and give the helmets as a cosmetic item for the people who want to use them.

Any decent player is going to have 100% combat uptime on these skills, and when something is up 100% of the time why not just remove it and have it down 100% of the time? Same result but less annoying work from the player.


Should we also remove all the 5min duration buffs from the game?


If murmhelm was 5min duration I wouldn’t care, as it stands in re:build it is 1 minute duration so it is obnoxious to have to spam equip it every minute.

Also most buffs are applied to the group so bit of apples and oranges comparison there.


Murm helm needs a rework but I think the most recent rebuild changes to dragoon helm are fine.

I do think that a more broader discussion about buffs and how they function should be addressed though, especially since a few in rebuild (aiming, invocation, etc) were recently reduced to no longer be 100%.

I don’t think it’s fair to hijack the thread but since helmets are buffs there is a core point that really needs to be addressed: What do players want, broadly, when it comes to buffs? What is their ideal length, what function should they serve? Should some things just be passive, or should they not exist? Should they have drawbacks? I think I’ll make a new thread when the ktest rebuild patches stabilize at least a little–things change on ktest every single day and the changes are so huge that it’s hard to even develop a coherent set or arguments for how certain things “should” be.

The one thing, helm buffs or regular buffs or whatever, that I do think should be the basis for balance:

1.) How long should the average encounter be in PVE and PVP?
2.) Should a buff last for an entire fight? (Should resources like wugu poison or necro corpses need to be refilled midfight, how many reagents should the expected usage be on a per encounter basis?)
3.) Should a buff with a deliberately short duration, due to its strength, have a drawback?
3a.) Should the drawback also depend on what the buff does (ie kraujas, do more damage/take more damage, or like overwork/goon helmet: do more damage/SP drain)?
3b.) Would it broadly be preferred, if the drawback is severe enough, to just have a weaker buff with the drawback removed entirely, or an attribute toggle for the stronger/bigger drawback? (Serenity is an elegant example of this functioning decently right now)
4.) What can be improved upon, to reduce the “clunkiness” of buffs across the board, especially with things like murm helmet?


I think it may be better to give it as a costume helmet for all those that changed into the class or as a quest item, they made sense with the old system but it’s quite pointless now that they improve skill damage right at the class.

Aside Headbutt, to not get stunned, no skill really needs them and if that was the case they can just make the cosmetic required. If helmets are that important to those classes just turn them into attributes that trigger when cosmetic helmets are equipped (end all the “urg, i hate my ugly helmet” for good) with less power.


For fashiontos I hope they don’t remove that ‘hide hairstyle’ trick to hide helmets in the Re: patch , at least they kept the original 'goon light helmet