Tree of Savior Forum

Remove Enchanter ability to create scrolls

General Discussion
#122

Well the poeple that don’t play classes that became and will be less effective due too skill scroll can’t really understand why so much of us are not happy.

But even if they don’t agree or understand :
We can’t say that skill sroll and magic scroll are a good feature.

Either Pardonner or Echanter is shiet for a part of a community or either you don’t care and you say that it wont make some class useless.

So we have two point of view ;
1- Enchanter is shiet, It will make so many classes usless.
2- Enchanter shouldnt be that feared, It wont make somes classes usless

I my opinion Enchanter is not a good class even if you don’t think that it will make so mage build worthless.

When I read poeple posting, I noticed that manies that talk here have a restricted game experience due to no level or not a constant 280 team.
Poeple give their opinions about what they know according to what they assume the game will be at max level ( so they know nothing just assuming )

So here is my personal opinion :
There is no need to pick a class circle on a main character that can be remplaced by scroll.

-> Krivis daino
-> Paladin barrier

Paladin is the worst class you can pick as main character in tos due to pardonner skill scroll.

just imagine if we get

  • lv.5 Join penality magic scroll
  • lv.5 Frost pillar magic scroll
  • lv.5 Haste magic scroll
  • lv.5 Quicken magic scroll
    …

You better get an extra dps than a support mage ( exept for Thauma ) Then Chronomancer, Linker, Cryomancer support will be like paladin 3 . Not be essential for a team thank to the futur magic scroll !

What’s the bloody point to make a game with so many jobs and and make half of them not worth taking ? I don’t understand IMC game logic. It look like they design class at begin and just randomly put them ingame without thinking this they will be competitiv against other dps / healers / supporters.

If IMC keep their class study so superficial ( meaning of their interaction with the content and not just theory crafting ) we will have in tos after 2 year only 2 build for archer 1 for mage 1 for healer and 0 swordman because the whole swordman interaction with the end game content is fail and the next swordman patch is just a joke when you see the end number in pve. ( well swordman is an other story ).

Please IMC make your gm or staff play seriously the game to understand it.

I think that Enchanter is just an other step forward about what a good mmo shouldnt be.

2 Likes
#123

In addition to which skills may actually be scrollable, there is another huge factor that could play into this.

Scroll cost. And, to a lesser degree, scroll cooldowns. Right now we’re all assuming that it will share the cost of Pardoner scrolls making each lv5 cost about 4-5k. But Enchanter scroll costs may be higher since this is both an R8 class in addition to some of the skills possibly being very powerful in the right scenarios.

On top of all of this, as it’s an R8, we’re looking at a likely cap of Lv5 scrolls only until we get R9… which, at this rate, would be sometime in 2017 (R8 only being added by August, with 4 remaining months until the new year).

So… what if cost to create the scrolls is 4x higher than Pardoner material costs? Sure, if you have an Enchanter friend (as the news suggests) you could get some at-cost for situational casting, but even then it would be highly unlikely that you’d be running around spamming 5k-20k+ worth of scrolls every pull.

I don’t mind some that some skills will be able to be crafted. What I worry about, though, are some of the skills that could break a lot of content we have.

Reversi shouldn’t be able to be scrolled because every world boss encounter would be 50x Reversi scroll spams making every WB a complete ■■■■ fest.

Pass shouldn’t be able to be scrolled because… well, that’s pretty obvious.

Haste shouldn’t be able to be scrolled because of PvP. I don’t mind so much in PvE that a player could gain the benefits of Haste because in a group you would just outrun your party making the skill less effective for the purpose you wanted, or, the whole party would have to burn a scroll to make it speed up a grind and I doubt based on potential costs that we’ll see a lot of that. But in PvP, especially open-world 1v1’s as you hunt opposing members, Haste would be a bit stupid to have on any character who wants it. Because of how effective it would be in PvP it would make it nearly essential for all players to have for open-world hunts… which, if every player requires it, then it means it crosses that line and goes into the realm of “shouldn’t be able to be scrolled” lol

There are many more skills too like Invocation. Free persistent AOE’s that any character can benefit from (more-so of course if you are MATK heavy)… but I think, in all, the point is that there are scrolls that shouldn’t be able to be created. Overall, though, if done correctly (high costs of scrolls, specific spells unable to be scrolled) it could be a good thing.

Scroll crafting shouldn’t be the source of income but rather should be a way to open up some additional attacks or utility for classes at a heavy cost. The rest of the Enchanter’s kit already provides ways to reliably make money.

#124

I have a Cleric2>Diev1>Paladin C3 who will soon enough go Kabbalist. He’s not specifically endgame or ET material, but as I transitioned into the 200+ maps, I can see the shift in Magic mobs. And in my time actually making this character and experiencing Paladin itself, it is more of a tough class to level up provided you’re not in place of Devil or Mutant theme- Where there you one shot most things.
But I also realize that the class is actually pretty well-rounded and is the only Cleric class that actively tackles messing with property defenses and attacks. Paladins are not only Barriers, Krivis are not only Dainos, and Wizards are not only Elememes and LinkerChronos. It absolutely sucks that someone thought making Barrier scrollable was an okay thing to do, but Paladins have decent supporter options especially for endgame where everything is magic and has property attacks, making their mitigation start putting in work. They’re, say, more specialized than a Diev who has decent answers to everything or a Priest who can just revive you if bad things happen. They imply that you’re already competent enough and are facing a high focus of magic damage.

Plus you’re failing to realize just how costly it would be to maintain multiple scroll skills at a time. I imagine while JP will help you grind faster, if you don’t do it in a profitable place you’ll actually be losing Silver than gaining it.

Not only the cost factor, but you’d also have to realize that not many people even know of Pardoner Scrolls, or even Dispeller Scrolls in the Market place. And even then among those who know, only a few of those actually have the inclination of buying something like say, a Daino scroll (Heavy Buffers such as Chronos or Priests).

And not to mention you’d actually have to GET to Rank 8, something in which a support build will take awhile to get to unless carried by others who want to get there, and going Rank 8 to make a throwaway character is quite harsh.

It’s for this reason why I’m positive that Enchanter won’t be as dampening of an issue as people make it out to be, or even assume at this point. There’s even the possibility of Clerics generally getting buffed like Priest did to individualize Priest Pardoners and actual Priest players.

3 Likes
#125

When I read that I wonder really if you are a troll
what game do you play now tos ? Everyone max level buy toon of dispeller, I bought 200 barrier scroll today for my my 2 days ET runs comings.

[quote=“chillcross, post:124, topic:312832”]
And not to mention you’d actually have to GET to Rank 8, something in which a support build will take awhile to get to unless carried by others who want to get there, and going Rank 8 to make a throwaway character is quite harsh.
[/quote] I leveled my linker chrono in 4 weeks just after game was out, and we was a lot of player leveling on high level maps.

Why you talk when you know nothing ?
Your build is so trash and usless nobody have any reason to take u in a team with such a fail build exept if they are friend that want to carry you. When you will be 280 on WB or ET ( the end game is only about WB and ET )
What is the reason to play a character as main that can’t do the end game content.
You are not even 280 since a long time not even 227 and you make a text wall about things you have no clue about.

Paladin are only about barrier : YES
You are happy of your smite damage caz you are just still in the leveling phase. Things are very very different after.
…
All worldboss hunters use blessing and sacra if qs3 build from pardonner
For Rexipher and PVP poeple are all perma dispeller
When you play priest with a team in ET or WB you must have somone using daino scroll and zalcai is a nice + if needed.

I don’t want to be mean with you mister Chillcross but my eyes bleed when I read you.

If you make skill scroll of frost pillar -> cryo support will be usless

Linker will highly depend on the cost of the scroll but just imagine a grind party all poeple with skill scroll join penality

And rip chrono if they sell haste quicken or EVEN pass skill scroll.

2 Likes
#126

Bascily you are saying that this skill scroll / magic scroll better not exist ?

1 Like
#127

“Yo we should probably turn all those people who leveled a Chrono or Thaum to 280 into a money class”

These Devs are on point.

1 Like
#128

I mentioned Smite because Paladin is conditional in that our damage really doesn’t exist without this condition being met. Paladins aren’t really supposed to be a damage-oriented class anyway, they’re about protection and mitigation above all else, while having some prowess in boosting magic-type damage.

Also, realize that I said My Paladin. I never mentioned anything about my other characters, and you’re assuming about assumptions and presuming because of these assumptions.

But at this point I see you’re not going to take anyone else’s opinions on this and your’s is the only right one. So instead of arguing against a brick wall, I shall waste my time elsewhere and maybe get some enjoyment out of it.

And talking to you is about as engaging as watching a snail paint a mural. Can we atleast bitch when it actually comes out and people can declare the game dead as per usual? It’s one thing to have evidence, but right now this entire thread including my own conjecture is just fluff and assumptions.

#129

I think the skill scrolls could be wonderful actually. But only if development is smart about it and listens to the community about warning skills like the ones I mentioned and the ones others have as well. A lot of the important skills shouldn’t be able to be scrolled. But skills like Fire Pillar and Fireball? Icewall? Quicken? I mean there are a ton of skills that could be good for scrolls without breaking the game lol

Out of the couple quick examples I mentioned that could be good (before someone says "wow those are useless gtfo scrub nobody would buy those):

Fire Pillar: 100% CC to enemies hit for the entire duration of the cast

Fireball: Scroll timers are separate from skill timers. Meaning circles with Pyro in them can cast fireball and use the scroll as well. Pretty cool with the Sage in mind. All psycho/cryo that use the combo but lack a circle of Pyro can just scroll for the extra line (making those characters that picked up Pyro as a rank just for the fireball line with icewall and pp means they could have went cryo2 instead for 10 walls). Outside of Wizard, sure, probably not a use for the skill though.

Icewall: Amazing zoning tool for PvP. In addition, for PvE and back to the psycho/cryo combo, and that scrolls are on a separate timer… it means you could Icewall, then scroll icewall, and then melt faces with even more hits. Additionally several other classes could benefit from some additional damage (although not likely a lot) by walling up. Pair up a wall + swap scroll against a map border (since the wall will only be lvl5) and you have your own combo for keeping a boss where you need him for a bit.

Quicken: A good example of a buff that doesn’t make a character reliant to be relevant. It helps, for sure, but not to the degree that some other buffs would, so it doesn’t make it so that every party would expect you to roll with it always up.

There are a lot of skills that could be good as scrolls. Joint Penalty likely being the catch-all since not only caster types will benefit greatly but so would all varieties of characters. But even that skill is getting dangerously close to the line of what I would call acceptable. If they allowed scrolls of Reversi, Haste, Pass, and others though? That would cross the line for me. Those kinds of skills change the game and allowing them as scrolls would break countless classes and content.

I have faith that IMC will be picky with what they allow and that they will think through the implications. As I mentioned before, Haste, for example, would force every player participating in open-world PvP to purchase the scrolls to remain relevant. If every enemy being hunted is popping their own Haste then you would be required to use one to even be able to compete, much less stay on screen with them. I would rather IMC start out with only a handful of allowable skills to be scrolled and then go up from there instead of allowing a ton to be scrolled then gradually omitting them as time progresses.

Between limiting which skills can be scrolled, and correctly pricing the materials involved, I’m sure we can work with the presence of scrolls in the game. It just requires proper balancing and we’ll have to hang tight to see how badly it’s messed up at first lol =(

#130

And yet it’s IMC you’re talking about, they probably don’t even know the existence of this thread and probably already decided on the scrollable spells as we can already see Joint Penalty in in-game screenshot. So yeah, expect Haste, Quick cast, All of Thau spells, let’s even get cray-cray and scroll all of Rune Caster’s spells. I’m actually ready for anything coming from IMC, they don’t seem to understand their own game.
How to kill support wizard 101:
Scroll Enchant Fire
Scroll Swell left Arm, Swell Brain, Transpose
Scroll Psychic Pressure, Gravity Pole
Scroll Joint penalty, Hangman Knot
Scroll Haste, Reincarnate & Pass
Scroll Rune of Ice
Scroll Raise Dead
Scroll Blood Sucking

If any of those spells get scrolled, there has to be Drama.

2 Likes
#131

While I think this is a terrible idea, rank 8 is only going to give +5 to the scrolls. That is the same as a level 5 skill right? Rank 10 will be required for enchanters to reach circle 3 to get the +15 scrolls right?

I am only assuming that is how it works as it seems the same as a Pardner.

If I am correct then I think that enchanter may actually be almost useless now but, come rank 10, they might actually start invalidating certain Wizard support classes.

Just my 2 cents.

2 Likes
#132

A lot of wizzard skills from circle 3 are very powerfull and define the class gameplay. And circle 3 skills are level 5. Others skill don’t need to be high level to be effective. If you look closely to the wizzard skill you will see that the majority of good skill dont need more than a level 5. Only the thaumaturge buff look very fine if enchanter come since attribut do a lot in their classes.

Just give a closer look on wizzard skill and think about your futur shopping magic scroll list.

#133

ridiculo isso pqp, imc quer falir de vez

#134

plot twist: they can only craft debuffs/buffs :imp:

#135

Death to support wiz classes is what I see if IMC plans on scrolls Linker, Chrono, Thauma, Cryo, classes.

Archer classes will be laughing all the way to their silver banks with more soloing power. Make it more of an archer class dominant game =_=…

IMC might as well open up a magic scroll TP shop… making things to sell seems to be their forte as of lately.

1 Like
#136

dang

so basically i can be all 4 classes?

play my archer
pardoner for cleric stuff
enchanter for wiz stuff
hoglan for swordsman meatshield

on a serious note

make a squire templar alt for free utilities on your archer

then u can really be all 4

#137

Enchanter is meant to provide additional Support and will be played solely in supportmage…
The fact enchanter can craft WF - the only reason ppl went into pyro follows to cyro>pyro due to the additional freezesupport

I like the class… scrolls wont be that op as you lack the attributes and noone will buy tons of scrolls… its just an alternative for additional power, no replacement for a whole class… you guys are all doomsaying

And we all know doomsayer destroy themselves next turn when the patch appears… badunts

Edit: fk didnt read the time q.q necro