Tree of Savior Forum

Re:build needs Re:build PVP changes

For the sake of general PVP balance, the current PVP rules need to be changed to reflect the changes Re:build brought along:

  1. Generalization of damage mitigation

Currently, some skills that mitigate or Heal damage are restricted in duration/value/CD while others are not. I think the PVP balance should make all skills that can mitigate damage equally restricted in PVP.

  1. Skills should have one role in PVP

If a skill has a sub-role via attribute, this sub-role should be reduced/disabled in PVP

E.g. Bloody Overdrive providing both damage and complete invulnerability via the attribute

These skills should concentrate on one role, being either CC, mitigation or damage.

Bloody Overdrive could e.g. have 50% evasion chance on attacks (not cc) instead in PVP to not provide an unfair advantage of evading up to 8 seconds worth of CC/dmg.
We know such differences are possible from the Malleus Maleficarum attribute that silences in PVE and burns SP in PVP, so why not use it?

  1. general hard CC is too OP

In general, a lot of CCs in this game is way too overpowered in PVP, e.g. Pied Pipers Wiegenlied and Dissonanz, which have a huge AoE and long effect duration regardless of skill-point and attribute-point investment.
While some have to be invested into (e.g. Inquisitors Iron Maiden) and need precise aiming, others just outright destroy all your chances on winning because they can’t be so easily avoided.

This forces people into being Oracle/Plague Doctor/Peltasta/Murmillio just to have a chance at winning against said CCs because they are just too overpowered.

This leads me to the following conclusion:

Just nerf hard CC in PVP (e.g. Piper CC success chance increases when he’s closer to the enemy and decrease the further away he is from the enemy so it becomes more of a tactical CC) and people will naturally choose other Classes & Class combinations than Plague Doctors/etc who you deemed so OP that you nerfed Beak Mask and Modafinil.

Also: Cleric needs more CC. How come that only Inquisitor and Druid have reasonable CC?
What about the other Classes that could be very well brought into PVP but usually suffer defeat against the CC-heavy Pipers/Lancers/Falconers/etc. in the higher Ranks of TBL and upcoming GCW?

Why has Bash knockdown but Smite doesn’t have e.g. a stun chance? (doesn’t have to be 100%, 20-30% would suffice)
Katadikazo could have knockdown (the power strikes the earth so hard that it splits) in the area near the spear so aiming carefully would be beneficial. The skill is so weak in general that it’s not worth using it in 9 out of 10 times, so why not add a CC that enables the Cleric to close the gap after hitting the enemy?

All in all, targeting & actively hitting the enemy needs to be rewarded while just throwing some AoE or homing CC needs to be less effective so people don’t bring full PVP builds that you have ± no chance against.

Last but not least:

The Crush>Quintainn combo to hit 3 times via attribute needs to be removed again(at least in PVP, it doesn’t really matter in PVE). It’s way too strong considering the Lancer can resist any CC, has normally more movement speed, knockdown immunity, can knockdown with bash and remove the shield of the enemy with Rhongomiant.

Rhongomiant doesn’t simply just remove the shield via attribute but literally throws it from your equip into your inventory, rendering swapping weapons useless and prohibits re-equipping it for several seconds. No wonder people get killed by 3x30k+ dmg Quintainns in TBL.

This is way way too strong to be reasonable for PVP and needs to be removed for the sake of fair play, especially considering IMC wants people to play with cloth and leather armor in the future, providing an even larger benefit to Lancers who will be able to use plate and benefit from all Class attributes.

Please make PVP fair so some Classes like Lancers aren’t OP in PVE and PVP while others are just crap in either or both of them because they miss CC/dmg/mitigation/whatever else.

image
:tired:

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Wanted to address the post cause i thought it was serious, then i read this:

Also, about Lancers not being good in PvP, i think some players may want to have a word with you.

Edit: The part about Lancers was me misunderstanding what you wrote, my bad.

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Come on, you’re one of the people who abuse damage skills with invulnerability to win.
All you’re doing in PVP is spam Cloaking+ Bloody Overdrive + Infinite Acceleration.

You’re the last person one would take a comment from seriously.
You’re part of the problem because you abuse the iframes to win in PVP.

In a fair PVP environment there are either iframes for everyone (e.g. Blade & Soul) or for no-one.
Also, in fair PVP environment, mitigation skills are balanced against each other (i.e. if recovery is reduced, so is damage reduction and vice versa; the same applies to CD time increases).

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Can you list me the ways a scout can survive if not with IF currently?

Archers = Wide range CCs + Highest range of attack.
Clerics = Heals, ability to not die for a set time.
Swordies = Insane amounts of def.
Forgot mages
Mages: Can fly, Wide range attacks that can destealth me and apply a dot i can’t dodge, ress themselves to full life, Ress PT members, have access to the best CCs in the game.

What scout should do to survive if not have IFs?

Also, about the “Full PvP builds you have +/- no chance of winning against”. My build while capable of doing pve, it’s not on the level of PvE builds, which in turns makes it harder to win DPS races as for example WB contribution. Do you see me complaining about that? No. Because my build is made for PvP and it sacrifices PvE power. It’s a trade, either one or the other.

Lol if Re:build needs any pvp changes it’s more nerfs to PD and Inquisitor.

This guy is still in his own world where only what he plays should be viable. Actually he even wants clerics to be able to do anything and everything exclusively. Useless and incredibly biased feedback as usual.

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To be honest, i don’t agree with the PD nerfs. Beakmask it’s fine in what it does and mondafinil while annoying, it’s still a skill that provides survs to healers(Since not all PDs are dps). If we wanted to touch that, i think it would be way better to just let some debuffs(Not CCs) go throu Beakmask.

That being said, apart from attacking my credibility, and in a crappy way, he really did not back up his arguments, nor answered to what he thinks should the defensive options for scout be.
On top of that, i would advise him to not attack anybody’s credibility when him in the first place doesn’t seem to be someone that you would trust in an argument.
He complained about something that it’s not even true “BO hits applying Freeze” and after he was quoted on that and proved wrong, he then proceeded to remove it from his post, which not only shows lack of knowledge but also shows that he will edit out quoted parts of his posts to cover up mistakes, making him definitely “muddy”.
And to quote him, he’s

Considering what he just showed.

Maybe next time he posts he will put forward arguments, who knows.

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My personal opinion about PD is that they shouldn’t have all of HP regen, CC immunity and increased movespeed in one kit. CC immunity should be for slow classes, movespeed should be for low HP classes and HP regen should be for low damage classes imho.

As for inquisitor, having ignore def on core skills should be something that belongs to a non-cleric class.

As for that guy, he deserves to be ignored tbh. Right now though he’s picking a fight on summoners cause of a personal vendetta so I’m going to call him out everytime his ego starts spewing walls of pointless text about his own world and narrow minded bias.

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Yeah, but then you would have to either completely change the purpose and role of the class(Which means abilities) or you would have to gut him down with nerfs.
Dunno, i think it’s fitting for the class to have all that, considering it’s all about statuses(Beneficial and non). I 'm honestly of the opinion that just letting more debuffs go throu beak by raising them to lvl 4 statuses would go a long way in helping jeopardize his surv. I don’t know all the debuffs, but if i had to make an example, i would say that CA that stops healing is one of those debuffs that should go throu considering how niche it is and how it would force the PD to be careful while the debuff is up or just spend the time runnin with mondafinil in hope he doesn’t get gutted before he can reset his life.

I don’t know about this as a whole and i don’t mean to gank up on him, what i said is based on what he showed here.

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