Tree of Savior Forum

Rank 9: Do you think it is a success?

Well, Kabba 3 brings close to nothing, so it’s no wonder it’s not popular.
It can’t stand on its own and it doesn’t bring much, so you need your previous classes to be strong enough to carry Kabba 3 and find a use for its skills, rather than Kabba 3 complementing other classes.

Ein Sof: just a SP regen/HP increase skill
R7: pretty useless nowadays
Merkabah: only damage skill Kabba is, and while it’s not the worst, the way the skill works and its cd make it rather bad
Notarikon/Gematria: gimmicky stuff, but they’re fine if the skills related to them are worth it
Double Chance: a bad gimmick, only truly nice if you’re solo and can choose which attack to use it with
Reduce Level: useless
Clone: has its limited uses
Gevura: it’s not bad, but a long cd and nothing amazing (compared to other classes)
The attributes are interesting though.
Kabbalist offers ways to increase damages, but you need to be careful which skills you’re gonna use, and the class doesn’t offer any good damage skill.
And in terms of a support that protect or help the party’s damages, Kabbalist isn’t nearly as good as the previous cleric classes.
On a standalone class Kabbalist might be good. But put in the TOS context with so many classes that can do so many things… ? Not really.
But it’s not like I’m telling you to not enjoy it, that’s good if you do. I’m just explaining why a lot of people are disappointed by it.

And for all the ones saying “Well, Kabba is a support/green class so…”, just stop already.
Dievdirbys, Cleric, Priest, Wugushi, Thaumaturge, Plague Doctor, Krivis, Chaplain, Miko, Taoist, Appraiser, … are also green/support classes. Yet they do their jobs: they buff themselves and the party effectively, they debuff effectively, they protect, and some of them even have nice damages. Some might need some special synergy to shine (Diev + Miko, Appraiser + a pistol class), but they still manage to shine. Compared to them Kabbalist doesn’t come any closer.

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saalus castle mission is perfect for scout’s cloaking, but the rest of the party just want to kill and kill and kill they relog to get another instance

R10 is not enough as long as the unbalance continues to exist.
At one point they have to make a decision: either keep expanding till Rank 12 to give all Rank 6-7 Classes a chance to get another Class (basically a Rank 8 Class since the other Classes are mostly too weak to be feasible for most game content as everything is just hacking through HP sponges) into their build,
or rework all Rank 6-7 Classes to have enough damage to clear Rank 9-10+ content.

There is simply no reason why some Classes should be weaker than others besides sheer arbitrariness, and adding onto it with a mindset that’s basically “my build is good enough so I don’t want other people to include more of my build into their builds/get more damage circles if the Ranks go beyond Rank 10”, I have to say that it’s a pretty narrow mindset totally neglecting the fact that new Classes continue to come out, resulting in more and more diverse build options if you can get beyond Rank 10.

But every build needs to include at least one to be able to level/farm/etc.
Looking at Enchanter e.g., you have good support and damage, looking at Plague Doctor you have good support and damage, it works.
It clearly shows that developers are aware of the issue and thus designed those Classes the way they are, except for Kabbalist/Oracle.

The reason why Chronomancer and Thaumaturge have no damage (yet, who knows what will come with Wizard rework) is because their support is located at lower Ranks [similar to e.g. Priest] and is so much better compared to most other support skills [Thaumaturge is a damage multiplicator against non-bosses, boosts atk,matk and defence and even can multiply drops/EXP, while Chronomancer boosts attack speed,movement speed,crit rate/evasion, can reincarnate monsters for more exp/drops and even ressurect with Backmasking]. Linker is essentially the same.

Now, I wouldn’t strain DPS so much if there was any PVE content that actually made use of survival skills like Ein Sof, Reduce Level or Revenged Sevenfold, e.g. boss skills that deal 100.000 non-reducible damage or a new type of dungeon where you have to survive but your armor is unequipped/debuffed to 0. But currently there isn’t.

If you need too much time in ET and challenge mode/instanced dungeons you will simply fail because you didn’t deal enough damage.

If you want to farm equipment you need damage(especially in the new Hunting Grounds) or you will take forever to farm your stuff together.

If you want to clear the new raid dungeon you also need damage and basically anything else can be compensated with CON&equipment+pots.

You simply cannot stress enough this issue that continues throughout the game, which makes it inferior to e.g. other badly designed games like Dragon Nest. Looking at RO e.g., you always needed a Healer/Supporter [e.g. High Priest+Clown] for harder contents/bosses unless you were clad with maxed-out equipment & MVPcards.
Here you go in with outdated lvl 315 rare equipment and recieve nearly no damage, even from field bosses like Zaura/Marnox/Nuaele,partially also thanks to Aspersion&Increase Magic Defense buffs and armor value boost.

About Warlock&Featherfoot:

Did you even read what I’m talking about?
I’m talking about the changes that Rank 9 brought with it.

We’re not talking about how good or bad the Classes are but how Rank 9 influenced/changed them. That’s why I used Cannoneer as an example, because Cannoneer is basically a bad Class at Circle 1 that gradually gets turned into a good Class with Circle 2 and becomes really good at Circle 3. This is where you see how good balancing and Class developement works.

And this is why I said that Featherfoot C3 is bad.

It added a lot to the boss fighting capabilities and more damage if levitating, but aside from that?

Neither the blood-sucking capabilities nor the skills like Bone Pointing/Ngadhundi were improved, the Class is basically still all about the Kurdaitcha&Kundela Slash combo.
I’m also curious about the build choices, did you see FF break free from Linker/Thauma? I surely didn’t. Maybe I’m just blind or Fedimian is too small to see a good sample size.

The same for Warlock. The Class itself is really good, but what did Circle 3 add to it? More skilllevels + fear chance and more damage with Dark Theurge. Demon Scratch was so bad in the beginning that it went from 1 OH to 3 OH to make it feasible.

If only the devs did the same thing with Merkabah or actually introduced some monsters with high matk capabilities so that the defensive attribute has any effect…[Even then a Barrier Scroll is more effective]

At least for Cleric it’s not true.

Rank 2-5

Priests C3 brough Stone Skin that initially had the same capabilities of nowadays Enchanters Enchant Earth, allowing people to block without using a shield & giving them a high amount of block rate + Exorcise, which allowed Priests to deal damage.

Krivis gained Melstis,which was overpowered when used in combination with Ausrine/Glassmole/Chapparition card effect, resulting in eternal immortality+ high duration damage boost.

Dievdirbys gained Statue of Goddess Ausrine, which not only provided non-channeling immunity to damage but also to knockback&knockdown, being unique in the Cleric tree until Rank 8 with Druids Lycanthropy.

Bokor got Damballa, which is a really strong AoE damage skill, dealing a lot of damage even back in the time when it was still limited to 15-18 hits, due to the sheer amount of zombies you could have& recieved a boost when zombie capsules came out and Ogouveve, which was pretty neat for zombie-based builds because of the AoE-attackratio boost.

Paladin recieved Barrier, which was a pretty needed survival skill because it prevents you from getting swarmed [many people back in the days used Barrier scrolls for utility or defensive reasons]
and Conviction, a pretty useful attack&debuff skill.

Sadhu got Transmit Prana, which could be used to buff your OOB spirit to deal more damage [before the Sadhu nerf].

Monk recieved Golden Bell Shield, which was a useful damage mitigation skill against certain skills/attacks that were very strong back then[the CD time was too high,though].

Pardoner I have to agree, the 1500 silver cost and 1 OH nature of Decatose make it a pretty crappy skill.

This is actually a strength of the update, that Solmiki doesn’t get to remain the pinnacle of equipment, because running ET simply sucks, it’s repetitive, boring and highly discriminating against the Classes that are simply flawed in their design. It’s also a chore as long as it doesn’t change towards weekly entries.

Farming and rerolling for the perfect stats takes at least as much chore-like dedication & time as getting Solmiki equipment does, but at least it’s also as rewarding as Solmiki is, which is the sole reason why outdated Solmiki should not be changed to being better than the new equipment.
It also makes Solmiki equipment more readily available because you can actually advance from your Solmiki Set to something else, resulting in the equipment being sold on the market for more funds.

Did you ever try to farm orange gear outside of Hunting Grounds without looting chance involved?
It’s pretty rare and most of the time you identify it, you only get useless blue/purple stats or only a single green one. Getting a good base to start rerolling is pretty hard!

Farming 340 HG is also hard if you don’t have the gears to back you up or are some meta-OP build like Thauma>Linker>Shadowmancer. And farming in a party is also not an option, because item distribution is random and might just give you only the bad spoils or only the good ones, leaving out you or your party members.
Only challenge mode actually drops enough equipment for everyone to benefit from it (and mostly blue[i.e. magic rarity] crap).

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I’m all for more equally viable options. My problem is specifically Solmiki Plate, where the new ID equipment can do better damage, and have better survivability, all while avoiding being forced to use the set bonus. Solmiki Leather and Cloth do more damage than ID, but ID can have better survivability, that’s where the trade off usually will be. Plate loses in all categories, other than a few minor bonuses in other areas.

The higher damage on the weapons means it’s almost always better than Bertas, unless you get insane roles on the Bertas which is as unlikely, and that’s not factoring in the stats from the Primus. The market is clear enough in that Primus is easy to obtain.

Anecdotally, I have no Looting Chance equipment, and casual farming has given me quite a few Primus at this point. It’s going to make sense economically just to go from whatever you have, to buy a 2m Primus from the market, and considering basic investment the divide grows.

The problem is further exacerbated in the earlier equipment.

I don’t want it to be like it was when Orange 315’s first came out, but this equipment is just really easy to either farm or buy, and only in exceptions is any kind of investment in a Bertas going to be more economical than a Primus, let alone most of the old equipment at their equivalent levels.

There will be no greatness as long as they stick to this ■■■■ buggy game engine. No game feature is awesome enough to overcome fps drops, channel crashing, disconnects and VGA error.

Some people actually enjoy playing in parties and running a full or high support class. Not every rank/circle needs a viable DPS option. If you want DPS, then pick DPS classes.

The quest to switch to one of the new rank 9 classes is worthy of being a quest to release the hidden class.

It is not worth changing without the reset rank event.

There is no point having a new patch, new content if maintenance and administration is still bad, continues to ignore players, continues to benefit cheaters…

Keep changing things in the game without warning … The game will only improve when they take shame in their faces and learn how to administer a product.

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Going further would only increase the gap between the most powerful builds and the not-so-powerful builds. See Murmnobi? At R12 they’ll be able to be Sword1Pelt1Hop2Rodel3ShinobiMurmilloGoon3 for example. Yay! Balanced. See Clerics? Everyone will be able to have Cleric2, Priest2 and Taoist in their builds either if it’s a support build or if it’s a DPS build. Yay! Super characterization! See Archers? Even if you have weapon restriction issues, any build could have Sapper3, Hunter3 or Wugu3. Whoa… What about Wizards? Yeah, you can pick at least Thauma2 for your build! No, every Wizard should have Chrono3 and your own Pass! See the problem? With R10 as the last rank, we have to choose what we are focusing on, but if we keep going further, anyone could be an one man army. No, I don’t want that.

C’mon, stop the drama. You can do any content in this game with any build. We’re not in iCBT anymore where PvE was really tough. And I say it because I leveled up a few characters lately. Also, ever heard of joining a guild or a party? You don’t have to do it alone. MMORPGs have the socializing part.

Actually, my mindset is “I like party content, so there’s no reason to turn every character into an one man army. If one wants to play Kirito, then go play a single player game.” Again, you’re completely ignoring the fact that to keep expanding the rank limit is only going to increase the gap between powerful characters and not-so-powerful characters.

Join a party. Queue up for an instanced dungeon. Make a dedicated farmer. You really suck at game design if you really think every character should have all roles at the same time.

Similar to Priest? Priest is a Rank 2 class. Chrono and Thauma are Rank 5 and 4, respectively.

Courtesy of @Queue , here’s how Kabbalist support has no potential at all.

Oh, poor Kabba3 players… They won’t be able to play in the new maps… God have mercy on those poor jew souls if there’s no one in the DG300 queue. And no, no, no. You’re absolutely unable to farm with Kabba3.

Yeah, Kabba3 absolutely sucks!

Thank god we can do it in party.

Wrong. See the third link above.

Again, thank god we’re not forced to do it solo.

What about you? Did you read what I said? Let me be clearer: Warlock needs a rework and FF3 in fact added needed stuff for the class. Now you can kill bosses. Also, with Enervation, you can use Blood Succ on any race-type enemy, so you don’t need to rely on Intasurta Gloves when you reach R9. Cannoneer got many new neat attributes because it sucked in PvE. You could count in your fingers how many main Cannon players existed in R8.

So Lancer is a bad class now because it’s locked to Hoplite and Cataphract? What a shitty argument. I could give you more examples of classes that have narrow build paths or are even locked to a few choices for their build, but give it a thought and you’ll be able to remember what those classes are.

Sorcerer3, Linker3 (needs a rework), Hoplite3, Scout3 (at least it’s better than garbage Scout2), Ranger3, Rogue3 and Fletcher3 too. I’d include Oracle3 here, but I think people will find use for it when Guild Colony Wars is released. Foretell looks like a good skill to use when charging on the enemy’s base and Twist of Fate has its uses against World Bosses, for example.

Try doing it with friends or with a friendly guild. :slight_smile:

it’s not due to the MMO genre, i pretty much always need to be playing an MMO. so now i switched to Lineage 2 : Revolution. And I’ve been having a lot of fun with the game right now, there’s tons to do and everyday my character is getting stronger with minimal amount of effort. There is a functional PvP system as well, which is something I really care about, and the game is actually balanced from what I can see.

It’s just a mobile MMO but feels so much more polished than ToS. The engine is more robust, I mean I’m literally playing 30v30 PvP and there isn’t any lag on my iPhone 6S.

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Twist of Fate doesn’t work against field bosses, though…

It’s also damage capped at 1,555m, so unless you have Double Chance to nuke the boss with a “single” hit, you will most likely do more harm than being useful if you don’t use it when the boss is down to exactly 20,5% HP (i.e. the lowest possible damage of Twist of Fate lvl 6 against Bosses) or 1,555m HP (if the Boss has e.g. more than 10m HP, 20% will be higher than the damage cap).

Btw, now that we’re talking about support&Twist of Fate:
Why the heck would you go as far as showing that video of a Dragoon killing a boss the wrong way?

The monster only has 5,5m HP, so why not bring an Oracle C3 instead and use Double Chance+Twist of Fate to bring it down in 1 go without the hassle of showcasing that lousy 777k dmgcapped Dragon Fall? That’s a really ineffective way to utilize Double Chance against boss monsters from card albums&in instances like e.g. 300 dungeon/Saalus/Siaulai.

If you’re supposed to bring friends/guildmates,you should do it right :prince:

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Oops, yeah that was the wrong example. I forgot that was literally in the skill description. :tired:

Yup, that was what I meant and that’s how an Oracle3 should use Twist of Fate against bosses.

Because I didn’t find a better vid and I don’t have a recent Double Chance+Twist of Fate combo vid to show. And hey, Twist of Fate is the only skill that doesn’t follow the 777k dmg cap rule, so Dragon Fall is actually a decent example, since 777k damage skills are a more practical example and it’s easy to know when your Dragoon teammate is going to use it. It’s an example of Double Chance potential after all.

Oh, and since we’re talking about Double Chance+Twist of Fate combo, at R10 Oracle3Kabba2 will be possible and, if we go further beyond R10, we could make Cleric2Bokor3Oracle3Kabba3 at R11 to enjoy Gevura+Damballa and Double Chance+Twist of Fate.

That’s a good suggestion. :wink:

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