Tree of Savior Forum

Question about add. dmg. and dmg resistance and drama about chaplain xD

The bug isn’t fixed, but it’s easily avoidable. If you proc Nirvana with Energy Blast it will snapshot at the level of the skill used when the buff activated. So if you punch once and use level 1 Energy Blast to quickly activate it, it’ll lock at level one. If you activate Nirvana with punches / other monk skills before using Energy Blast, it’ll cap at its intended level. I normally just punch for a second or two and it’s there.

The way I play it auto attacks are just filler between CDs or used to stack visible talent between Nirvana procs, which are easy to activate with end-game crit amounts. AAs can still do damage but it’s just inconvenient having to be stationary at melee range.

Chaplain’s main benefit to monk is Paraclitus Time and Deploy Cappella, and Visible Talent and Aspergillum are pretty good too.

I think if people stopped trying to force auto attack without having the proper gear first, and used it more as a melee caster like Crusader, people would be more open to playing the build.

My main criticism of it is that it doesn’t have i-frames and mobility and standing still to do your damage without good defensive tools is difficult. There are easier to execute damage builds for content like bossing.

Just saying the bug is annoying is all, like an itch in the back I can ignore and adapt to, but still an itch. I do love myself some more I-frames and mobility as well, to this day I wonder why IMC changed Golden Bell Shield and didn’t bring Modafinil over to Monk instead.

While I agree that playstyle is the norm now that Energy Blast got buffed, the advent of Goddess Armors changes everything for builds to focus more on casting Energy Blast or auto-attacking. Chaplain lacks on most fronts or any outstanding pizzazz of its own as a red damage class (it can pass as a green support class though) compared to other classes, other than a few utility skills which are of much bigger use in PvP than in PvE. Deploy Cappella is a strong buff, but it is only for holy damage compared to Inquisitor’s Magic Absorption attribute giving 75% damage boost + 10% holy damage debuff from Judgement + 20% critical chance buff (not forgetting Inquisitor’s various utility skills and Breaking Wheel as well). To be fair though, IMC concentrated too much power into Inquisitors for comparison to begin with. Chaplain is also (still) a Magic Attack class in its core without an updated stat change attribute, and nowadays only Crusaders (or Nirvana) have a pure holy damage skill set for it. Druid would technically be the perfect class for Chaplain with Demi-Lycan scratching being Magic-based to benefit from a pure INT build alongside Aspergillum (with stat change attribute turned off) to overcompensate the lack of Double Punch’s SFR, but the requirements of activating Saint Oath needs skills that aren’t Magic Circles, Continuous AoE damage or Continuous DoT damage which really limits your class options. Furthermore, Aspergillum does not benefit from Saint Oath, very questionable why this is the case for an auto-attack class. As the game advances and updates further, Chaplain is really not updated to suit the meta of current times for now.

Cleric auto-attack theoretically becomes decently strong only with all the items needed in place (huge investment here), but in practice, no one other than SRs can keep auto-attacking monsters ~100% of the time while IMC balances such classes with the assumption one can. The melee auto-attack playstyle is too inefficient and flawed, yet much more gear-reliant and expensive to shine compared to other playstyles.

With that said, perhaps if they can implement certain functions to mitigate such issues, maybe a “buff stack” system where time not spent using auto-attacks gives buff stacks that gives the next auto-attack X amount of auto-attacks equal to the damage lost from not auto-attacking (kinda like a reverse Visible Talent) to make up for IMC’s poor auto-attack balancing, something can change.

A lot of expectations for the upcoming Chaplain and Monk updates, especially Chaplain haha.

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I found that Paladin is the best way to counteract this issue. Tons of pure defense mitigation and access to passive heal/sp regen. Paladin also has holy and physical/magical buffs, that are a wanted in a Monk-Chap combo. With proper funding, you also work as a dps tank (which you may want for WW or Singularity)

@4lkruzeth
The way I see it right now, you want to focus on both Str and Int, while your weapons gems and cards (Green) will focus on the damage type (physical/magical) you use more of in your Monk/Chap kit. I’m going for 4 greens (Str, Int, Con, Spr) on my random ichors, and getting the crit stat from Fixed ichors, accessories, and legend marnox. This allows me to have reasonable physical and magical damage, as well as the crit necessary for Nirvana and damage in general.

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1.) Cleric got super gimped when they removed EVERY i-frame from each circle. Safety Zone, Stereah trofh and the other similar skills made monk, sadhu, and chaplain a lot better. If they couldn’t balance them in PvP they should’ve just removed them in PvP. They also didn’t add anything in their place to compensate.

2.) I’ve theorycrafted chaplain-centric builds, but I focus on using monk because that’s the basis of my class build. Nirvana’s buff was so massive that outside of WBR you can use it for just about anything.

To me, Chaplain is what Enchanter is to SR or Assassin to Scout or Tao to Wizard. Getting knocked down gets me killed and all my main DPS requires me to either be close ranged or channeling a skill, so 30% chance of 15 seconds of PB isn’t enough. Deploy Capella boosts my Empathetic Trust, Blind Faith, Energy Blast, and Aspergillum damage, so it does quite a bit. Aspergillum hit’s 49 times at its SFR, + holy damage, so it actually is better than I think people give it credit for. You could also use it in a magic build, but having it be a magic circle means you aren’t forced to auto attack to utilize it. I don’t think current-form Chaplain is gimped and I think it’ll be even better after an additional buff.

Chaplain is basically a better holy Krivis.

3.) Anyways, I agree with basically everything you said about AA monk though. It can do damage, but it is inefficient because demands too much. You could go swift and have amazing AA damage against like 1-3 enemies or go Storm and Nirvana and hit every mob at the same time.

I considered Paladin but settled on Zealot because you need a massive amount of crit to reliably activate Nirvana in EP12 / WBR / raids. The minimum crit chance and +25% crit chance is very large to pass up and you lose dmg from losing FI and Blind Faith/Empathetic Trust which do a ton of burst. Resist Elements doesn’t have 100% uptime either.

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This I found was countered by just having a Legend Marnox card (since its minimum crit), and for more crit chance, some random crit stat here and there.

Yeah, that’s the unfortunate part of it. But it is both good for defensive and offensive purposes, making it highly versatile based on the situation. Also a nice boost for an elemental based party and not just yourself.

Pros & Cons… :satisfaction:

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I have a level 5 demon lord marnox which helps, but that’s only after the main critical chance fails. So With Marnox and Beady Eye I have a 25% chance to crit against an enemy regardless of normal critical rate. With just Marnox I’d have a 10% chance to crit against enemies I may not be able to normally crit.

Considering most of my damage comes from keeping Nirvana at 100% uptime and not auto attacking, since it’s a stronger and larger version of Rubric with a 0s CD, I need as much crit as possible.

There are definitely pros and cons. Nirvana Monk is much more bursty and a lot less sustained DPS. There’s theoretically nothing stopping you from building both, since you can just swap weapons (with minimal skill reallocation), but that’s more investment.

By more bursty I mean: Empathetic Trust adds 10 lines of damage, Blind Faith adds 20 lines of damage, Aspergillum hits 49 times, so you can do over 100 procs of damage in under 10 seconds. CDs are comparable to Inquisitor, but it’s better at farming and PVP, while Inquis would be better at WBR (most likely).

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I really miss my Golden Bell Shield i-frame … say it with me everyone, Scout is a mistake!! (JK)

Sadly, it is IMC’s bad design decisions that forced Chaplain into the corner, having to consider more stats to invest in over defensive stats, going hybrid damage having to worry about Physical, Magic and Additional damage, its lackluster involvement in the overall auto-attack formula, outdated class functions, forcing 1H-Maces over 2H-Maces and so on. That said, I’m less worried about Chaplain getting buffed though, since its shortcomings are pretty obvious and it can only go up from here … right? :face_with_monocle:

Monk, on the other hand, is at a very risky crossroad now, being a class that can either go the auto-attack route with Chaplain (can kinda skip Chaplain with Saint Oath on, really) or compete in the skill spamming route with Inquisitor-Zealot Druid, and either routes are linked to drastically different equipment set-ups with huge irreversible investments behind it. The channeling set made so many factors click for Inquisitor-Zealot-Druid specifically, putting all the necessary skills at~40-45s cooldown and turning it into a stellar Sterea burst skill spam build, which Monk is unable to compete with Druid due to its current convoluted skill set. With 2 types of no-cooldown damage sources in Double Punch and Energy Blast that can benefit from the casting and auto-attack Goddess armor set, Monk is a different wild card to balance, and its optimal playstyle may change significantly with the re-balance.

In that regard, huge expectations are riding on the upcoming patch for both classes. Either Chaplain and Monk becomes good enough to compete with the pack, or face being an outcast for the next 4-6 months.

PS: IMC, please delete Smite and put the damage buff onto Guardian Saint.

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@4lkruzeth, a question about arks, I saw a long time in your post about Swift Ark, when Swift is activate the calc is only Basic Attack Damage from ark, and not from Double Punch I’m sure?
but when you use Vaivora Sacred, the calc continue only from ark or the Swift calcule is both Vaivora Sacred+Ark?

The Storm Ark not is better that Swift?

That was the case when Swift Ark was first introduced. Since then, IMC tweaked Swift Ark’s properties a few patches after its release so that it can benefit from Double Punch. Now, Swift Ark basically multiplies everything that is tied to your auto-attack, including Double Punch SFR. I don’t clearly understand your second question, but Swift Ark also multiplies whatever Vaivora Chaplain Mace contributes to auto-attacks.

It is unfair to judge which of the two Arks is better as both have widely different uses, one specialized for AoE and mobbing and the other only for auto-attacks (that hits a few targets at most). In a bossing situation, Swift Ark (with the right build and set-up) theoretically out-DPS’s Storm Ark significantly, but Cleric auto-attack has always been irritating to use in practice as compared to the SR counterpart. In a mobbing situation, Storm Ark (especially with strong mobbing skills) really helps mobbing damage a LOT, even carrying a build’s mobbing damage. The content you are tackling will determine which Ark is better for you.

Aspergillum too?

Sorry, I did a mistake, I want to say Thunder and not Storm xD
I know that storm is a specific ark for mob =)

Yes, everything tied to your auto-attack, including Double Punch’s and Aspergillum’s full SFR, Last Rites, Sacrament, Enchant Fire and so on. You basically see a buttload of damage lines burst forth if you proc Swift Ark with such buffs.

In terms of bossing, Swift Ark (with the right build, playstyle and set-up) theoretically out-DPS’s Thunder Ark as well due to various factors though it comes with a huge cost (also how impractical Cleric auto-attack is). Its a long-winded discussion, but Chaplain by itself is most-suited for Swift Ark due to how limited the class is in the first place, and its going to depend on the 2 classes chosen with Chaplain to decide on the best Ark for it (caster or auto-attack Chaplain).

If you want, I can divulge further. though it might derail the topic to some extent.

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did someone say SWIFT ARK :eyes:

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sorry, but what is “SFR”?

Skill factor rate.

/20chars

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