Tree of Savior Forum

[Proposal] Premium Servers

General Discussion
#1

With F2P looming on May 10 and with the announcement of the exclusiveness of the Telsai server, I think this is the perfect time to propose the idea of premium servers. The demographics of iToS is certainly different from the demographics of kToS, that is why it would just be proper to adapt to the global market. The CS:GO model an example of a very successful monetization system. It uses a one-time pay-to-play model and is further monetized in the form of skins. I believe this type of system would be compatible with Tree of Savior; one-time payment to access and create a team on a premium which would be backed up by the current cash shop. I am advocating for premium servers alongside F2P servers, not premium only.

Implementation

DLC Method – IMC already has the technology to restrict team creation of players to specific servers as evidenced by the founder’s only Telsai server. What they did with the tiered founders pack was smart. It allowed people a choice of supporting ToS with the $50 and $30 packs or an option to just try it out early with the $10 pack. A base $10 price point is a good choice for premium access but, IMC could always adjust it however they would like. IMC could give us DLC packs that would allow us to create teams on premium servers. Regional pricing could also be an option similar to how they are going to do TP transactions. This could also be applied to making separate DLC options for the different regions.

Transfers – IMC has already done server transfers. I suggest giving current players 1-time server transfers if ever this is implemented. This gives way players are not stranded on their current server and be given a choice if they want to play on premium servers or the F2P servers. With future transfers, I suggest putting in a TP fee and certain restrictions to regulate transfers and only allow accounts with the appropriate DLC to transfer.

##Benefits

Better gameplay experience – Premiums servers would provide a premium experience to players. I believe that the current problems that we are facing are due to overpopulation of the servers. I took a week-long break when the whole Bolento/refund pandemic because of the rampant bots I was competing grinding spots with. The bots were outnumbering actual human players in maps. After IMC solved the problem by implementing restrictions I came back and I just have to tell you wow, it’s like a whole new game. (I also bought new Founder Pack 1 because of this) I only see a bot once every 5 minutes now instead of 5 every 1 minute before. (It’s still horrible on low level maps.) Also RMT spammers are now only spamming 1-3 channels of towns instead of all 20 channels. Whatever you experience in the beginning of early access is what you will experience on F2P release but only 10 times worse. Whatever you’re experiencing right now is what premium servers would be like. Do I believe IMC could eradicate botters and gold sellers? No, I don’t. But I do know that they can minimize it due to the next 2 reasons.

Incentive to enforce rules – This would add another secondary stream of income for IMC: banning of bots and RMT spammers. If you would give me GM tools I guarantee you that I can ban over 100 bots in less than an hour; if you were to price premium DLC at $10 that would be $1000 in an hour. They could just hire people at a low wage to patrol the server and answer bot reports and they would benefit both themselves and the players. It’s not hard to identify bots, RMT spammers more so.

Barrier to entry for malicious players – One of the most effective ways to combat malicious players is to make unprofitable for them both in terms of time and money. In the F2P model if a bot gets banned then they can just make a new account. In the premium model if a bot gets banned they have to shell out again for premium access and they’re back to square one. Gold sellers will incur additional costs for paying for their farming accounts and their spamming accounts. If it’s unprofitable for gold sellers to operate then they will either stop operating or increase their price. This is where the token system that is implemented goes to work. Why would people patronize gold sellers if they can get it for cheaper and easier the legit way of just buying and selling tokens?

Incentive to satisfy players – This is what greets me every time I run dungeons for the first 8 hours after reset.

(I suspect this is what CommanderLoadFail really is, except in fixed form) On top of that there is also constant server lag throughout the day. I didn’t intend this to be a rant thread. IMC would be incentivized to add more servers for their customers. Since happy customers are paying customers.

Low Risk – This is the perfect time to experiment with this because F2P hasn’t launched yet. IMC can always just merge the servers if it proves a failure or keep it if it’s a success. Players would always have the choice of playing on the premium server or the F2P server.

Concerns

Population and community fragmentation – If you were to tell me that the premium servers would be a ghost town, I will not believe you. This is a screenshot of the mercenary post 3hours after reset taken on May 5.

Missions.jpg1608×930 564 KB

Notice how almost all channels are red. Just imagine if you were to add in F2P players to the mix; you won’t be able to do missions, daily quests and party quests because you can’t get in the mercenary post. IMC could always just merge the servers if the population gets too low. There have even been speculations about cross server PVP and such. (I honestly wouldn’t want to fight against bot haven servers)

No one would buy tokens on the premium servers – There would always be a demand for tokens. The laws of supply and demand would govern the marketplace for this. A high supply of tokens would make buying tokens from the marketplace attractive due to low prices and a low supply of tokens would make buying tokens to sell be attractive.

No one would sell tokens on the F2P servers – Same argument as above. Tokens on the F2P server would sell for a hefty penny. People would be more inclined to sell tokens because of this. There would always be a high demand for tokens on the F2P servers.

IMC would let F2P servers rot – There’s little incentive to fight a never-ending battle. Just imagine policing the F2P server of endless waves of bots with nothing stopping them from making new accounts and you gaining nothing from banning them. It’s a waste of time and resources on IMC’s part unless they deploy a solid anti-cheat and even then bot creators would be one step ahead.

Botted accounts would just transfer to premium servers when they hit max level – I think a review of transferring accounts is a must for this. A review of suspicious activity of the account, a review of IP accesses to prevent selling of botted accounts and other countermeasures are needed to ensure the legitimacy of accounts. Additional restrictions such as untradeable items or limited silver transfer are also options.

I want to play with my friends but they don’t want to pay for premium access – Nothing stops you from playing on the F2P servers. If you can’t shell out a few dollars to support a game that you would spend hundreds of hours on then I don’t know what to say.

Alternatives

Why not apply a subscription-based model? I do not think a subscription-based model would be successful because of the current monetization model right now. We already have the token system in place for a constant stream of revenue. Adding another recurring payment would just turn away current and potential customers. Also, adding a subscription to an arguably pay-to-win cash shop is a very alienating experience. Most people would be against it and would not even think of touching the game.

Why not just add token-user only channels? The same problems would still exist. Token users would just crowd in the limited token channels and bots would rule the normal channels. The economy would still get ruined because of the influx of silver into the economy. The price of arde dagger before was always above 1M due to the bots buying them out. After the bans and restrictions the price came down to a steady 700k to 800k.

Conclusion

Having premium servers would solve plenty of the problems that F2P games have. Having both options of premium servers and F2P servers would give players a choice of a better experience and a way of players to experience the game. Premium servers are the perfect middle ground of the subscription-based model and token-user only channels.

Any comments, suggestions and criticisms are welcome. Please send your insults and racial slurs through PM instead.

tl;dr: giff premium servers

@STAFF_Ines @STAFF_John @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_J rip:Staff_Julie

5 Likes
[Reopening Discussion] Premium Servers
#2

NO!!! WE WANT FREEBIES!!! Just kidding I paid 50 dollars for this game. I like the idea!

#3

TLDR, but please one premium access :slight_smile:

#4

We already paid to get access to the game before people who wouldn’t or can’t afford to.You may slap Early Access on it, but we got plenty of extras for doing so, not just more play time before other people.

Also, stuff they should be doing anyway (better gaming experience, incentive especially, reviewing accounts way more frequently) shouldn’t be further put off behind a pay wall. You think this is the perfect time, but if you’ve paid any attention to what IMC has done with a lot of time and it’s decisions, you’d disagree. They need to repair their image right now, and this would be going in the opposite direction.

2 Likes
#5

After taking time to read, I take back what I said.

#6

Actually there’s something I’m wondering now - and that is, if most people on the SEA server are from SEA. When Telsiai was first set up I think a number of people went there to avoid overcapacity at Klaipeda and BRs at Orsha. After that people transferred out from Klaipeda/Orsha into Telsiai but not the other way round. As a result people from all over are in Telsiai. I wonder if allowing people to transfer from Telsiai to other servers would improve the situation.

1 Like
#7

Everything you’ve listed in benefits is basically “I don’t want bots on my server”. Well, P2P servers are essentially what we have now, and even with the Steam pricing change, bots are still around. Much less prevalent, but they’re there. And they will always exist unless IMC adopts a system like Korea, where many services require you to register with their equivalent of a social security number. AKA never. The only thing adding a paywall will do is split the player base even further and damage IMC’s reputation.

1 Like
#8

Must be me but I swear to god there wasn’t any F2P players around for a whole month. I mean we are literally paying for premium access to the server already and we still have bots.

#9

As stated in the original post, if you were to compare the beginning of the early access period and what we have now, what we have right now is miles ahead of what it was. IMC can’t truly solve the bot problem, no company can, but minimizing the problem as much as possible is the only thing they can do.

With what I’m proposing it’s just like what will happen to the Telsai server right now, only allowing founders players and only opening it to people that would pay access for it. Nothing would stop people from playing on the F2P servers if they so choose.

#10

I don’t like the idea of creating even bigger differences between F2Player and P2Players. Bots would also not desperate nor lower their population.
I don’t see what you like about empty servers, but for each it’s tea flavor.
IMC has not been able to handle the current player flow and I doubt they will be able to any time soon, specially with launch 5 days away.

This feel very elitist and I’m not a fan of that thinking.

#11

Premium players are what keeps the servers running and keeps IMC’s lights on. The fund the game and keep it alive for F2P players to enjoy. ToS has arguably one of the least Pay2Win cash shops I’ve seen in a long time. Tokens can be bought from the market, enchanted headgear can be traded around and EXP tomes give minimal advantages. I think IMC wants to keep it that way or they would’ve put in the dungeon reset voucher in the cash shop giving people potentially unlimited dungeon runs. Or they would’ve implemented potential restoring potions or 100% success rate anvils. They might even implement it eventually if this game turns unprofitable for them.

Satisfying the paying minority that support the F2P majority is one of the reasons that I’m pushing for this. I have friends that are saying that they have nothing to spend their TP on right now. I myself have just bought 2 enchant scroll packs and nothing else because nothing is catching my eye.

Maybe it’s different for the other servers but Telsai is filled to the brim right now. Trying to do dungeon runs just gives me an error message of instance limit reached. Just imagine what F2P will bring. I doubt I’ll even get into the dungeon entrance map. As you said, IMC hasn’t been able to handle the paying players, what more the F2P players?

#12

No, fk off LMFAO :sleepy:

#13

The game is still an infant at this point.I love cash shops,but when you board the ship from the beginning,you have to wait for it to grow and develop.Just give it some time.

Also,that’s not the right attitude or approach to have.I used to think like you,to be honest.There was another online game/community called TinierMe.Not as complex as this game,literally just an avatar dress up site with forums and more accessories/outfits obtainable through gachas.Those things were the death of me.For about 2 years,my life was budgeted around that site and what I could get my hands on.

Then the site owner changed,and they hiked up prices with very little notice.Almost doubled them.The site was in chaos and the forums rioted with petitions and people boycotting the site.After so long on the site,I had amassed a very valuable hoard of items and had a valuable account by site standards.Most of my friends were the same.We all talked about what was happening and laughed it off! People loved the site and they’d cave after so long anyway,so we just decided to wait it out.

A week later,they announced they were shutting the site down in two weeks.It was even more chaotic after that.People were sad,furious,and confused.But it worked,the site’s new owner was greedy and wanted even more money,but overdid it and lost everything.For no really good reason.As soon as he saw a dent in sales,it wasn’t worth it.The effected customers didn’t matter unless they started or kept spending,even us insanely loyal ones.

Before it was officially closed,some of us took the time to go back into our bank accounts and see how much we dumped into our now lost pixels.I had spent enough to buy a car and then some.So please don’t think I don’t understand where you’re coming from.After that happened,I even thought “I gave them so much! Everything! I deserve the best stuff for keeping their sorry website alive for so long!” I actually had these thoughts.

But after the emotions settled down,I realized this happened because it’s not just the high paying players that need to be made happy,it’s all of them.Everyone is just as important,because they all have the power to make or break the company.I know it’s easy to think the way you do,but it’s not beneficial as a whole.

#14

Yes Yes! I don’t mind a premium service and paying $15-50 a month for this one!

#15

TL;DR - “i don’t understand what tokens are supposed to be for, cater to my whims!”

2 Likes
#16

Read the title and get insta flagged

#17

mm interesting but NO!

#18

I don’t know which part of your story supports your conclusion of valuing F2P players so much. What I can infer from your story is that the site was trying for a final cash grab before it closes up shop. You do know whales account for the majority of the profits of F2P games. For every 10 F2P player there’s a whale supporting the game for them. Keeping them happy should be the #1 priority of companies.

#19

if they cater to every whim the whales have, the game will quickly become 100% pay-to-win.
the other non-paying players (and even the ones who only spend a “reasonable” amount every month) will feel neglected and leave.
and then the whales won’t have any peons left to fill out their parties, or level with, etc.
some of them will complete all the content, get bored and leave.
others will get frustrated with the empty servers, get bored, and leave.

the same is equally true of splitting the servers up into “normal” and “premium”. it cuts the population down on either side.
and then you have to answer the question: “what are the benefits of playing on the premium server? we’re paying for it, so what kinds of bonuses do we get? better exp? better drops? exclusive items?”

i just went back to read your post and i realize it’s far worse than i realized.

for instance, your two reasons for “how it would minimize botters and spammers”…
incentive to enforce rules: a greater income isn’t going to make them more -interested- in getting rid of bots. and since much of the income generated would just turn around to pay for the costs of operating the servers, it wouldn’t provide the resources either.
Barrier to entry: uhm, it’s clearly not much of a barrier to them now. why would it magically become a barrier to them later? they currently have to shell out for each account they create, and it’s not slowing them down very much. (in fact it seems to be getting worse over the last few days)

as for… Incentive to satisfy players ?? dude, that’s basic business practices. if your customers are unhappy, they won’t come back.

most of your post is simply random conjecture, or a wild misunderstanding of how things work. like…
…PvP vs ‘bot haven’ servers; well who cares? the bots aren’t going to queue up for pvp.
…that tokens would sell well on a Premium server: well no they wouldn’t, because people would expect that as a “Premium” server, that “premium” services are already included.

… then what’s going to pay to keep the premium servers running? it would absolutely -have- to be a monthly subscription, due to the extra costs involved in all these extra gm’s you expect to patrol the servers. (1 gm each for the current 5 servers, and 1 extra (to allow for shift overlap and bathroom breaks and whatnot) is over $1000 per day, at a measly $7/hr. and that’s only the paychecks, i have no idea what to add for overhead costs like HR, office space, etc.)
“oh but players would totally love to volunteer to do it for free” … yea right, just look around the forums at the community we have here. with all the trolls and stupid fights, not to mention the massive ignorance of easily accessed information, would -you- trust community-volunteer GM’s ? i know i wouldn’t unless there were some kind of strict vetting process, and some kind of serious checks and balances to their power. otherwise you get someone who just logs in and bans . on friday evening, 5 minutes after the regular staff has left, who’s only doing it to “prove how insecure the system is” or something. and then nobody can log in till saturday afternoon when the staff finally hacks their way in and corrects the ban tables.

Conclusion:
Premium servers are an imaginary solution that will not prevent anything. Anything that players can do, botters can also do. If it was that easy to make it unprofitable for botters, then simply making games be “buy to play” would have solved it long ago.

1 Like
#20

Being too lazy to read all the OP’s wall of text and the replies… but wouldnt a premium server be more prone to bots?

Hear me out here, they usually gain access to games with stolen CC and what not, which is why there’s hordes them currently.
So its not going to stop bots

Now giving that most of the paying community will move to a premium service. If you can afford to pay for more perks why wouldnt you?
So wouldnt gold sellers just follow the market? I mean if you had server A with 5% buying TP wouldnt it make more sense to concentrate your efforts on server B with 100% people willing to spend money on the game?

Now if your playing a server where everyone or atleast most people have the financial means to afford to buy TP wouldnt that decrease the value of TP on the market.
So wouldnt that give more incentitive for players to buy off gold sellers? Lets say f2p server tokens sell for 2kk compared to p2p server where they sell for 350k. You’re going to get alot better deal buying gold on p2p server now arent you?

Also : [quote=“PinatoButter, post:1, topic:245853”]
If you would give me GM tools I guarantee you that I can ban over 100 bots in less than an hour
[/quote]
I think you’ve lost all credit at that point…