Pretty clear why the game barely gets new players now

[hillgarm_the_2nd]

@yochuico2

Yes cool, now imagine going on trip advisor and looking at the comments for a restaurant and having many of them be straight up fiction or weird stuff written by literal lunatics, some of which don’t even go to the restaurant. “The chef spits in every plate”. And having the same people write the same thing in a different way every 2 days to make sure their name keeps displaying 24/7 on top and look important.

The feedback is still genuine. There’s no perfect feedback and somethings may or not unintentionally fixed, but the main points still remain. I’d really like to see some examples of what you see as misleading cause they’re reasonable most of the time. It’s not like this negativity is good, it’s just that not being aware of it or pulling it under the rug is more harmful. That if the game ever manage to make a turn up (again, talking about the long run). Praise has to be earned.

@yochuico2

Ok then why do people have to enact a personal vendetta?

Just re-read the conversation slowly and calmly…

@yochuico2

And why are you talking about it as if it was a girlfriend you broke up with?

Founder pack crew. I was promised a creative MMO with mid to heavy exploration and got a mobile gatcha ■■■■ measurement game that happens to be on PC.

@yochuico2

How many years ago did you stop having fun?

About 3 or 4 years ago. Non-healer supports had died already, game wasn’t multi-char friendly nor allowed you to explore with gear options.

@johnstamossa

I want all these doomers to prove that they have played the game within this week

I haven’t touched it in 2 years and i won’t. It’s simple, there’s nothing in the game that resonates with how i enjoy playing the game. At most, i’d give Heroic Tale a shot for being the most distinct content released, but the idea of leveling any character to participate on it doesn’t stick. None of the main points i criticize have been addressed anyway…

[yochuico2]

@hillgarm_the_2nd

I haven’t touched it in 2 years and i won’t. It’s simple, there’s nothing in the game that resonates with how i enjoy playing the game.

Then why are you here telling me what is good feedback and what is bad feedback? Or the state of the game? Or what people think? How can you know what is good or bad in the game, or what people say is true or fake.

[johnstamossa]

imagine not playing the game for 2 years, but still staying at the forums. doesn’t it sound like mental illness?

also giving biased and untrue takes at that

Non-healer supports had died already

HUEAHUEAHUEA!

so easy to spot people who haven’t played the game

[johnstamossa]

Here’s some advice:

There a new game called Lost Ark that has a lot of similarities with ToS
maybe you should play that game and move instead instead of waiting for TOS to die in the forums

[hillgarm_the_2nd]

@yochuico2

Then why are you here telling me what is good feedback and what is bad feedback?

I still read the news about the game so i have some clue on a few things going on, surely it isn’t enough to be completely aware but most of the people complain about balancing and fine tuning and that perception can change a lot from player to player. If someone posts something similar to an issue i had years ago and i don’t see any change related to it applied or scheduled, then i’ll take it as granted.

Also, it’s not like every player finds enjoyment on the same aspects of the game nor has the exact same experiences. That’s why i say it’s valid feedback, neither label it as good nor as bad.

@johnstamossa

imagine not playing the game for 2 years, but still staying at the forums. doesn’t it sound like mental illness?

also giving biased and untrue takes at that

Maybe? Who knows. But it’s fine, at least we got something in common, even thought the subject is different. Now for reals…

@hillgarm_the_2nd

People who come to the forums to voice up against all this garbage are the ones that care the most

I just want the game to be enjoyable. Ain’t hard to understand.

@johnstamossa

HUEAHUEAHUEA!

so easy to spot people who haven’t played the game

Small correction. I was talking about pure non-healer supports, minimal to no DPS. They were never meta but they had some value back in the days, like a good ol’ thaum-linker-sage with minimum burst power every 20s or so. Same goes for cryomancer being a CC class and tanks taking managing enemies because oneshotting stuff wasn’t the norm.

Correct me if i’m wrong but i don’t think it is possible to enhance cyromancer’s effectiveness aside giving it more damage. Yes… that’s exactly what i want in my non-support build… damage…

[johnstamossa]

ench - thaum - X support builds are pretty popular and meta
hwarang - X - X is also meta

not sure what the hard-on is for pure supports that do no damage when you can have supports that actually pull their weight

[hillgarm_the_2nd]

There were similar builds at the time too but the key point is that the playstyle was completely different, which also changed how party dynamics worked as well (at a time that damage wasn’t as polarizing). Not having access to heal makes it a completely different game as it was significantly harder to have an impact in the party, and it was possible (linker-thaumaturge-chrono was a popular support build).

A game with this many classes should have more than 2 ways to engage with combat right?

PS: It also allowed you to play in party with friends that prefer or only play the traditional duo and get them to enjoy their roles at its fullest.

[johnstamossa]

you’re contradicting yourself. the pure support non heal builds still exist

you’re just a wuss and still have your rose tainted glasses of what the past was…
maybe if you just played the game you’ll complain less

not even sure why you’re here if you haven’t played the game and is here just to complain on deaf ears

maybe it’s time for you to move on to another game. if you want to glorify suffering, then just go back to RO or some older MMO. it’s the right fit for masochists like you

[Treasure]

@hillgarm_the_2nd

I haven’t touched it in 2 years and i won’t. It’s simple, there’s nothing in the game that resonates with how i enjoy playing the game. At most, i’d give Heroic Tale a shot for being the most distinct content released, but the idea of leveling any character to participate on it doesn’t stick. None of the main points i criticize have been addressed anyway…

small bit but just wanted to let you know that you can jump a char straight to 450, aka the minimum requirement to enter heroic tale now

[endbringer]

Nice welcoming community we got here. I can’t fathom why nobody want’s to stay once they interact with outside sources.

[icyruios]

@Torkoro

For me , goddess patch is a big mistake . Changing gear progress from team base to char base and lack of enchantment material obtained from raid easily cause player to feel burnout. Furthermore , reducing silver drop from cm/ds kill costume collecting players as they don’t have enough budget to buy things from the market.

I don’t know if it’s me or whether or not it’s still applicable.

One of the reasons why I quit after coming back might be because of this. For me I’m a Wizard lower so I love customizing many Wizard classes to fit themes, like Fire Mage/Ice Mage/Dark Mage/Summoner etc etc.

And I remember that I could use the same equip, storage transfer and use the exact same equip on another character. But when I came back there is this new thing like you can give your equip or weapon special effects, and that if you don’t have that your class is not going to be optimal? And turns out I would need a different equip for a different mage?

I don’t know if it’s still the same or if they made it easier. Also, I read that it is also easier to get attribute points? I remember being super tired of throwing gold into attributes points or something just to unlock some ARTs or something like that

[Kiyoshiro]

@icyruios

One of the reasons why I quit after coming back might be because of this. For me I’m a Wizard lower so I love customizing many Wizard classes to fit themes, like Fire Mage/Ice Mage/Dark Mage/Summoner etc etc.

The current Wizard meta, if you care about that at all, kinda encourages the thematic builds you described. There’s even a new lightning Wizard coming probably soon, so you can finally have a full lightning-themed build.

@icyruios

And I remember that I could use the same equip, storage transfer and use the exact same equip on another character. But when I came back there is this new thing like you can give your equip or weapon special effects, and that if you don’t have that your class is not going to be optimal? And turns out I would need a different equip for a different mage?

Gearing is much easier than it was before. Yes, the current endgame gear is character-bound, but getting copies for your alts and upgrading them enough to run entry to mid-level content is also a lot easier. I started playing actively just recently myself and already, I have my main’s gear enhanced at +16 - +20, and 5 alts with +11s.

The item that gives special effects that you mentioned are Vaivora Visions, which adds additional effects for various classes. For example, Pyromancer’s VV creates a meteor shower when you cast Fire Pillar. Yes, they give enough power to the point that they are a requirement for most classes, but you can get 2 for free and getting more isn’t as extremely expensive as they used to be.

@icyruios

I don’t know if it’s still the same or if they made it easier. Also, I read that it is also easier to get attribute points? I remember being super tired of throwing gold into attributes points or something just to unlock some ARTs or something like that

There’s new login rewards for new/returning players that should give enough attribute points and tomes to max all your necessary enhance attributes and all your Arts attributes. Outside of that, farming them is still a bit slow.

[trombini.vinicius]

@icyruios

I don’t know if it’s still the same or if they made it easier. Also, I read that it is also easier to get attribute points? I remember being super tired of throwing gold into attributes points or something just to unlock some ARTs or something like that

well, its quite easy to set up a vasilisa set, Lucifere is like 15kk per char so its not like its cheap, Ark is cheap but still require some grind. About the Attribute points, the weekly raids gives plenty, it takes time, still better than before for sure.

Also i m late with the reply

With the engrave system + unbound scrolls you can share Random ichors between chars( expensive and i recommend doing that on a reset event)

[yochuico2]

For attribute points you can do achievements to rush a second character quite easily to high amounts, even a third probably. (Someone boosting you can help getting some extra with hard raid fast clears)
For ark you can just pick ark divine retribution as your “episode unlock” and make it level 3 on alts since most of the power is stacked there.
Most classes use “Overload Raid” as unlock for their armor, so you can share this effect between most classes, even on the ones were this is not the right one it will still do ok.
Using “Reset Boxes” from events you can change a vaivora unlock into any other vaivora unlock (i say unlocks cause now most of these things are account-wide unlocks), so you can easily obtain vaivora for alts with some silver.
To get alts and other stuff up fast you can sell items like brikynite from singularity and nucle/sierra powder that drops from challenge mode. You can rebuy it at a later time when you are good geared but you barely need those for your first months.
There is a content that is literally just a minigame with no gear required, no mobs to kill, it’s called relic excavation, it’s like grinding but casual, you can make potions that sell for a good chunk from it.
The real hurdle is that at the start buying a token is really hard so you have to deal with higher market tax when selling.

[Hilsun]

I played the closed betas, then at launch for quite a while, and have played off and on for years. My favorite experience was hands-down during the closed betas. Back then, content didn’t move at light-speed, bosses took more than 1 ability to defeat, and you could actually enjoy and appreciate the path (exploring, leveling, progression) rather than feel like everything is pushing you to ignore the vast majority of the game in lieu of rushing immediately to the end.

Exploration, build-crafting, and progression are my favorite aspects of MMOs. It’s hard for me to stick with ToS when exploration is discouraged, skills and classes are constantly in flux, and they rush you to the end of the game and eliminate all sense of meaningful character progression. It makes me sad, because I really love the art style, the combat, and the classes. I even enjoy the maps for the most part, and I think there’s something fun about having connecting maps with vast level differences and accidentally stumbling across things that 1-shot me; it creates a sense of danger and forces me to not simply auto-pilot through the game.

I keep returning to check on the game from time to time, but every time I do it seems like the game is hunkering down on its direction of “rush everyone to the end” which is very disappointing. I would love to see the game increase the difficulty of leveling in order to give it more meaning (make monsters more threatening, make quests more worthwhile, stop providing so many boosters/methods to avoid the content, etc.) Maybe even make two paths, a Hard Mode and and Easy Mode path, where your choice of starting zone determines the difficulty of the path forward. This way, players interested in rushing through the game can start easy-mode while players who actually want to enjoy the content, progression, and exploration can do so with more of a challenge.

At this point, I would like to see any attempt at incentivizing players to actually play the earlier content rather than do the complete opposite and push people to ignore it. If the game is going to be vertical-progression oriented, the only way to keep players interested is to make the progression feel meaningful. Starting people at the top of a vertical-progression game completely defeats the purpose.

[iorawerks]

So true… it hurts my heart thinking how TOS could have thrived and be one of the best MMOs out there.

[TeamTrees]

first new server is fun to play too but after merge it is become unworth for playing it anymore