I can not say that always is true, there are games that make money even if numbers drops down or stagnate. What is imported is how many players are online (so the world feels alive) and if the game is earning enough.
Good example here is EVO online that has a small player base(small compere to others mmos) but for long time is was enough to keep it going.
There are other games that had at start massive player base cuz of hype but later on they sufferd for it(like ESO)
Well in the example of Path though… They’re something like 4-5mil players is what they like to brag about… And I think that was 2013? Which is believable if you look at their google and twitch stats. I don’t recall when forsaken master’s came out I think they were fighting with Diablo 3’s Reaper release… So probably around that point… I think they probably managed to increase their player base then… Since the PoE crowd basically played D3’s expansion got bored and went back to PoE afterwards because of the better depth.
What I’m getting at is… GGG at least in America may end up with more players then what ToS is going to have. So a compromise especially premium monthly service is a strong solution. It’s that or whale hunts like PWE which will cause the eventual decay of the games community–and likely permanently damage IMC’s brand. I know it may feel like I’m playing both sides… but I’m just explaining why GGG is successful. I’m on the side of what’s real here not my own personal agenda against cash shops. IMC needs to strike a balance so they have some itch players can scratch but it needs to be a minor one. But that itch needs to be socially acceptable.
I can think of another game with a small team that’s done ok even after they screwed up very badly at the start because of their terrible boss. Fire Fall… Despite everything has a fairly un-abusive cash shop at least since the last time I jumped on there. I think they provided paid access to slightly faster mounts then the one you quest for and easy access to classes you could if you wanted unlock through gameplay. And one transportation tool that they give you for premium accounts so you can get around the map. And they’ve managed to survive with a player base that is all things considered fairly small. The RO ‘equivalent’ would basically be a flywing that didn’t run out of charges but had a cooldown.
With rumors about emulated ToS servers already popping up ‘for educational purposes’… We can probably assume IMC’s best move right now is to create as socially acceptable of a shop as they can. Which I mean looking at the major private RO servers run their cash shops… Probably isn’t going to be hard. Pretty sure all those servers just provide a the exact same shop just no lag, and easy teleport.
That’s why I’m trying to scratch my brain for something that isn’t going to upset even conservative players. The premium monthly investment is certainly the way to go for ToS I think. Cause firefall was honestly very bad at release but they still manage to keep building their community beef their development team back up, stay alive, and even start pumping content out properly. I think ToS can be GGG if they have a rock solid replay-ability. But if they doubts about keeping players around for long periods of time they should consider something closer to what Fire Fall runs.
They got a better picture then we do. The Koreans also have a better picture right now because they’re trying out a lot more of the game and have been able to play the game, rather then our very short server test essentially. IMC has the metrics as well to look at on whether players are sticking or slipping so they have an idea as well on what their weak points are. If they think they’re keeping everyone playing for months and months no problem. Then they don’t need to worry about doing a firefall shop… They an go ahead and be GGG no premium accounts. But if they think the game is going to be intermittent play like players will grow disinterested take a break then come back later. Well premium accounts are probably in their best interest to keep development going strong.
And currently most socially acceptable premium shops involve early and easy access to unlocks(Fire Fall at least did quick access to classes) and transportation. Storage… is something that could go either way… Nexon is an example of a company that does storage very poorly. They give you so little inventory and storage that you can only play the game for 15 minute intervals before your bags fill up… And trust me… people rage about that sort of thing. I can’t get anyone to play their games with me because of that. People just don’t put up with it. And some of their games are really really good. Dragon Nest is an amazing series but they ruin it with that crap. And the games community is super tiny now because of it.
Edit: Sorry about the wall of text
tl;dr a monthly premium service is one of the best solutions. And generally the most socially acceptable premium services have been centered on transportation or paid access to unlocks that can be achieved in game through other means. Also no one likes Nexon.
One of the things Firefall is currently doing is that the marketplace uses its own currency.
That currency can only be obtained by converting 25k crystite to 1k credits per day, doing the amazon daily quests, and by being logged in for 2 hours total (and opening each box as its timer completes).
That market credit can then be used to purchase the cash shop currency (red beans) from other players. This effectively means that for the person who dumps their time into the game can get the same stuff that someone who buys red beans. The way the market stabilized a person could get 10 red beans per day for 1080-1100 credits per day.
There is no real trading all “trades” are done through the market (for credits) and through mail, but that only applies to gear and some materials.
Result? Firefall has no gold seller spammer problem. Everyone can get cash shop cosmetics, vehicles, gliders, and VIP time. It just either takes some time and some farming (25k crystite is like 1 warfront run which takes 1~2 hours), or some money from your wallet.
The reason Firefall was so bad at release was due to well… overcomplexity in the crafting system (1000 variants of every material when it was not necessary), mixed PvE and PvP systems which destroyed the great base design of their pvp (it was as fun as TF2) then what pvp they did have got destroyed when they attempted a OWPvP zone.
They are currently working on something that harkens back to the good times, the time of CBT.
True PoE is indeed a failure in business perspective.thus why no publisher even bother copying their fail cash shop That game is just overrated with its supposed to be “fair” cash shop when most people don’t even buy anything due to how overprice the stuffs there. I wish there are more sensible people like you, this forum is filled with shameless leechers.
^ This. hahahaha. Finally, someone dropped the bomb! 
I don’t like that idea at all. I’m not trying to play an RTS or a MOBA… Click to move is a cheap and lazy convenient way to play. Another thing is that things that are convenient shouldn’t be added just because they’re convenient.
well there are tons of things that should be remove from games if we go your road.
As for autopathing It could be added but not as a premium feature,
So whats next are you guys going to beg IMC to give you free PC to play the game, cause you know having a better PC means better FPS that’s a clear huge advantage pay to win. Just tell me so I could join the begging.
Desolator has no mercy. Penetrates your topics and deals tons of crying.
Desolator does not even make any sense.
Shameless leechers want a P2W cash shop, because it means they can easily buy anything they want just by buying those few high selling goods for massive amounts of cash from players who need it to compete.
Why should they need to do any farming themselves? When they can just buy whatever item makes a person OP in PvP or raids or whatever in bulk out of the cash shop and use it to basically buy the best of the best in gear farmed by others.
I think we went off topic so many times in this thread… Just because of people want to straw man every point the ‘other team’ says. Spirit of the original thread was about brainstorming solutions. I think we have 5 other threads for the P2W battle. Why not more talking about possible solutions.
@Raspy
everyone here has doctorate in business and economics degree and assures that IMC will get ROI via cosmetics only
How are people who are paying for the game leechers? Your fellows definition is quite clear “Anything that gives advantage through money no matter how small it is is pay to win”, So therefore having a better PC is without a doubt pay to win, infact a game breaking one, you might find it ridiculous but that’s how you are. The problem with people like you is that you are so delusional about your video game skills that you would blame anything for not being the best it just so happened in an online RPG the easiest scapegoat is paytowin. But then again not even my armor piecing skill would pierce your stubbornness, so Volvo please buff desolator!
Dude, I didn’t say that features should be removed because they’re convenient. I simply said just because they are convenient doesn’t merit it as a reason to implement the feature to the game. Why does it have to be one way or the other?
Because shameless leechers are the ones who want to win without them doing any of the real work. Why would they want to grind out for that epic legendary weapon when they can buy it off someone?
Oh and I would say this:
In a game like Elsword due to how it is coded strangely a better PC does result in better gameplay, where higher framerate does mean better first hit detection (most other games maintain a ping buffer so the difference between someone with a higher and lower frame rate is not felt to anywhere near the same degree) and better resolution even means larger hitboxes.
In a game like this one? Better PC wont mean jack squat besides prettier graphics.
Nor would a shameless leecher get anything asking for a better PC from IMC cause they will simply shrug their shoulders and say “we do not sell PCs, go to best buy or something”. So trying to use better PC = P2W does not work for this type of game. It would not even work for Elsword since they do not sell PCs either.
The problem with trolls like you is that you think that having a cash shop that only exists to make the character prettier, or stand out from the army of clones running around, and having a few convenience items won’t survive when there is plenty of evidence that it does survive. Very well at that.
The reason why they survive well is because it builds up trust with the games community. A ton of players get burned by P2W tactics so when they see a cash shop that is devoid of P2W they become more inclined to spend money in that shop, they are not being forced to buy to survive the game and if the quality of the game is good then they will want to support the company anyways.
I am not delusional about my video game skills, I have not grinded my Ego exp to raise my Ego level. I am average joe level at best.
Then again at PAX Prime at the Dragon Quest Heroes booth I was apparently the 39th person (the event had been going for 3 days by that point) to figure out how to beat the Gigantes boss within the demo’s time limit. Hell, I had 5 people watching what I was doing very intently because of how fast I was blitzing the boss.
If someone exp boosted ahead of me I would say “oh well, go have fun with less people to play with and a market that does not really exist where its only full of sellers and no buyers”.
Oh and funny thing about Armor Piercing skills they only ignore a certain amount of armor, not reduce it, so when something does not have armor (like stubbornness) it does not do anything. You are better off using a slash weapon like Logic (especially enhanced with Evidence) to cut through.
-Doesn’t even know what a leecher is.
-Doesn’t even know the difference between frame rate and ping.
-Labels anyone who disagree with him as troll.
-Says he isn’t delusional about his skill and then proceeds to brag about how he is good at a certain game.
-Claims the same argument over and over again as if it wasn’t proven to be false.
-Claims that he doesn’t care about people being ahead of him yet doesn’t want exp boost to be added in the game.
-Claims an argument to be illogical despite the fact that the argument is based of his own logic and yet his logic is perfectly fine.
-Denies every evidence that does not support his own delusional view.
People keep calling those who support a cosmetic cash shop as shameless leechers, when going by your same logic they are not leechers because they are supporting a cash shop where they will be spending money and being against the P2W cash shop where they wont be spending money.
So which is it? Is someone supporting a cash shop they will be using a shameless leecher or not?
As far as I can tell a shameless leecher wants a P2W cash shop. Since then they do not have to do the work to farm up money themselves, do not have to put in the work to farm up gear, and can just buy it all with their wallet.
Higher frame rate means you can respond to attacks faster. Ping buffer means that even though you responded to that attack faster your hitbox is still behind you and that higher frame rate meant nothing in the end. Giving you the same effective response time as someone with lower frame rate.
I label those who act like trolls, trolls. I label someone like Zombiefier a troll because that’s all I have ever seen him do. Right now you have gotten on my troll list for the same reason.
I claim I am not delusional cause I see that there are people a lot better and more dedicated then me all the time. In just about all the games I play.
I have yet to see people bring up any evidence that cosmetic cash shops are not successful. They have not brought any examples up, and they keep saying our example of a successful cosemtics cash shop (path of exile) as not being successful in the face of the quarterly reports that says it is.
If you actually read any of my earlier posts you might have realized that I support having an exp boost in the game because it is convenience and do not understand how it is P2W and thus should not be included in the game.
Honestly your argument that shameless leechers would ask IMC for better computers was just as illogical, bad, based on your own logic and you treated it as perfectly fine. At least I pointed it out that it would not even work as an argument.
I have asked for evidence that people keep uh… not showing.
Please let’s not g near the VIP features. We’ve all seen how this turned out in browser games. A cash shop is there for anyone who wishes to spend a few bucks to gain an advantage, who one blames cashers. Just don’t make the game pay to win with VIP features.
@ kvothe0153
so what do you think is pay2win in my suggestion? and how is it similar to the browser games you speak off?
Let me start off by saying i love most of the features you suggested. The thing is, those features on their own are not enough to warrant creating a VIP system for them. So other stuff will be added to make sure that the VIP system is ‘worth it’.
From what i’ve seen with countless other games, VIP systems will provide daily bonus advantages beyond the bonus exp/gold etc. Even though it starts off decently, it always snowballs out of control into something ridicuously p2w. Now if IMC can create something balanced and fair, i have no qualms with a VIP system, i’ve just seen too much BS with those in the past.
Also, you may not realise it, but making priority item displays in the auction house would totally break the game imo. Other than that, the other suggestions are great.