Tree of Savior Forum

[Poll] Do you despise RMT? (Finishing Topic)

General Discussion
#1

UPDATE

I want to stress these out:

RMT is unexterminateable and will be forever there as long as ToS still run. The main point is how IMC manage and control it. In fact, IMC is doing it itself as well. Token and enchanted headgears are light RMT.

In terms of damage to ToS, bot is more serious than RMT even though they usually linked to each other. However in same case, bot is unexterminateable. And there is NO SUCH THING as anti-bot system. There is no hack proof system same as game guard stuff.

I am doing this update to finish what i started and just for my own self. I have flag to moderators to close this topic.

Before you start to poll, please hear my reasoning behind this.

As some players or trolls who investigate my account, you might thought that I am just a whiteknight or shiro emiya pretender. I actually very despise RMT because RMT destroy Dragon Nest(DN), a game that I played longest and loved very much. RMT almost made me quit mmo game forever and switch to single player games till I saw ToS trailer. I was as excited as many people when this game launch. However, IMC is a very new company and it can’t handle the load of 50K players in the server. Plus, most of them are botters for RMT purposes.

I was a silent reader till that i could not tolerate the ignorance of forum people. I do not want the game I love die again. So, i decided to pop my head out (create a forum account) to let people in forum aware that IMC is heavily attack by RMT after release ToS. IMC’s hands was full on fighting RMT(bots mainly caused by RMT) but many players were just whining and ranting at IMC that bugs are not fixed, balancing of classes are not implement and fps massive dropping. Then, they left because they could not tolerate a buggy game. Believe me RMT is like a cancer, if you don’t fix it when it is small, it can ultimately kill you and you can do nothing but to wait for your death.

I am very happy that IMC manage to reduce a lot of botters and GMs really patrol around. ToS is more stable and many bugs are fixed. Although new bugs appear, it is not as serious as before (and Hei! Bugs are unconsciously made. That why they are called bugs) The fact that RMT exist is because players secretly want them. They want effortless rewards and ability to showoff. But the fact that they don’t understand is RMT destroy the game = you are paying real money to kill mmo game companies. So, RMT users are technically indirect killers.

My ToS groups in facebook almost quarter of members are RMT users and many left ToS blaming ToS is a buggy game instead blaming themselves supporting RMT so much that it destroying ToS when IMC is trying their best to save it. Nowadays, many are making quit sales but a few RMT seller are still promoting their products. It makes me think that they are not ordinary RMT sellers who bot a chaplain to sell silvers. They actually min max their characters and hunt for rare items to RMT like they are making a living out of them. In my opinion, if they are using so much of time playing ToS, why did they not make streaming in twitch or make videos in youtube? Don’t they so dedicated playing ToS because they love it? They can earn better if they make helpful or interesting or funny videos. Well, if RMT is always checked and controlled, i have no objections.

Someone criticised me for despising RMT that when I quit an mmo game, I will be selling my own account too. Sorry to disappoint you, I reload 250bucks and still left a lot cash in DN but I still decided to quit the game. I tried to return into DN for a 2nd chance for returning players event but it could not last half a month. The developer still greedy as fk and economic same broken. Maybe in some distant future, I may return to it again when things change for a better. Or maybe I like to keep my options open. I did the same thing for maple story and dragonica(died but is reborn as dragon saga) You can call me stupid or anything but it is just the way of I do things. I don’t need someone to refund me back for the time spent on gaming. If the quality time spent is worth it, I don’t mind paying without refund.

Do you still despise RMT?

  • Yes, exterminate all of them RMT
  • No, leave them be if they are constantly in checked and controlled
  • Don’t know, don’t care

0 voters

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Policy Update Regarding RMT
#2

The reason i made this poll is because both sides of developer and players are at fault.

(i will try to keep it as short as possible) Plz don’t tldr to me :sob:

Developer

  1. Making so many restriction to counter RMT is only a short term solution. And not listing it on a pinned notice kill new player’s mood to play
  2. Not giving notice or warning of impact of RMT, how they react to it and why they make such actions
  3. Not giving detailed enough skill description and no skill preview are destroying non-meta builds
  4. Events and maintenance are poorly explained. Most of the time, they need to update or release a 2nd notice to prevent misunderstanding

Players
(Bear with me,ok? i know most people don’t like hearing the truth)

  1. Comparing IMC to blizzard for the management of game is absurd. you need to check the history of the company. wikipedia is just beside google
  2. Like quick rewards without efforts(RMT) Why do you want to cheat when playing a game? Do you think the game will be fun in this way? You won’t appreciate the things you get because you took it for granted
  3. Are you doing RMT to make a living or support yourself in ToS? Because i pity that you are walking into a wrong path. Hardcore gamers usually support themselves by twitch or youtube and maybe patreon can work somehow. One of the hardcore players i like is AikawaKazu
#3

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#4

Tldr,RMT is an issue all mmo’s have, yes. Is it completely preventable? No. But more can definitely be done.

They could make a dent in it by simply having someone search up websites and social media groups known for RMT and monitor these locations for deals actually made, then track these items in-game and ban accordingly. The point is that it has to be aggressive and constant, or it will be out of control.

#5

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#6

Well neither is happening at the moment, so I guess they’re both too much work.

#7

:confounded: sorry for the wall of text. Basically, i was talking about awareness of RMT users that they are encouraging more RMT botters which is destroying the game.

You are talking a spy agent acting as RMT users? i have thought of this idea too but i think IMC is definitely staff lacking. IMC could not hire a community manager like staff Julie.

#8

As much as we want to hate RMT, it’s been known how bad the consequence of IMC’s actions are when it comes to tackling this kind of issue: MORE RESTRICTIONS which badly affects honest players as well.

Also, you’re in the wrong FB group. :slight_smile: If you’re in Telsiai, feel free to join our “no RMT allowed” group here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/TreeOfSaviorSEATelsiai/?ref=bookmarks

ps sorry for the plug, but i’m not sorry hahaha

4 Likes
#9

You need to look at different types in a different way.
Those goldsellers are a plague in every MMO that should be removed, but cant cause thats a major fail of the broken F2P model.
On the other side, selling a whole account when quitting is perfectly fine to me.

#10

i dont know what to feel exactly about RMT. (now before the white knight mob comes at me with pitchforks, bear with me as i try my best to explain my thoughts. i do hope in between these lengthy lines of text, someone rephrases or puts it into a better perspective that i do.)

at first i was strongly against it only for the reason that it is illegal. but then i realized it’s as gray of an issue as film piracy. we all know that growing up, not everything illegal is immoral and that laws sometimes (if not frequently) exist for the protection of a select minority (think about a law that favors huge corporations over the laborers)

i dont see any real harm done to the majority except for profit loss of the money-making entity (let’s just focus on game publishers and devs, disregard the entirety of film piracy for now).

what happens is merely a redirection of profit from player-gamemakers to player-to-player. now this is where it becomes a problem from the standpoint of the seller (IMC), technically it’s lost profit when players pay another player for an in-game item or currency instead of paying IMC for legit cash shop items. as i see it, prohibiting RMT rides on this very principle. there’s no better reason for gamemakers to rigorously chase down and penalize this kind of transaction than for loss of profit.

some may also argue that RMT can be an avenue for money laundering. but i highly doubt that and the occurrence is probably irrelevant to this issue.

PS. i’m writing this at 2 AM in the morning and i wont probably finish this so i’ll just leave it at that and edit this post tomorrow.

PPSSSS i dont condone RMT. i’m just as happy as everybody else when someone gets banned for it.

#11

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#12

yes i forgot to mention it’s also an issue of fair play - that players with deeper pockets have more advantage. but to hell with those since this is F2P and you can sell token for silver. there’s no difference between RMT and buying TP as far as fairness in playing the game is concerned

#13

Dont see any harm except profit loss? Didnt notice all the bot report posts, too many bots im quitting posts, too much spam in town posts? How about if you spend all this time farming some items just to notice bots farmed them to worthlessness? Its more than just the money. RMT goes hand in hand with bots and a messed up in game market.

Of course if they can get rid of bots it wont get rid of RMT, but i think it would help.

#14

I never had problems with RMT, people will always try to earn money wherever and whenever they can, if ToS was really worried about RMT, they could just exclude personal trading and make a mailing system, and better market, people would need to be very trusting to RMT trough mail or market. I don’t have so much hope in society to believe RMT would survive if people needed to trust each other…

Also most end-game items in TOS are character bound, you can’t even trade it with other same-account-characters, I thought much less with other people.

Another thing is, if RMT is so powerfull, why the developers don’t focus on character lvling instead of farming items? Everyone can sell a sword, but only you can train your own character, of course there is the problem with bots also…

#15

i have an idea!!! lets reward RMTers with free TP!!!

oh wait allready done

5 Likes
#16

And lets not forget that innocents get caught in the crossfire of IMC’s insane war on RMT.

#17

TBH - IMC’s stance on RMT seems to be “inflate silver gains enormously at the high end and ban bots before they get there”. Frankly, looking at how insanely expensive attributes are in R8 and how much silver you get from farming already, even with bots taking hundreds of millions out of low level maps it’s going to be quickly deflated by the exponential increase in silver gains and silver costs the higher you go.

However it is concerning when they let a high level bot run around one of the highest silver/hour maps in the game for weeks before banning it. This says to me that when a bot DOES make it through the low levels undetected and reaches those lucrative high level maps where there are fewer players around, they won’t be reported enough to be banned. Still that’s a small volume of bots and silver farming bots are all about volume in order to be at all efficient.

It definitely has massive negative effects as well, though. Obviously the main reason most of the best gear in the game is untradable random drops from dungeons is so that RMTers can’t just buy end game gear. But that also leaves the end game gearing of legit players totally up to chance. All the trade restrictions are also detrimental to legit players.

On the whole I think IMC is doing better combating RMT than most Korean MMOs do, since it isn’t nearly as big an issue in Korea and thus more Korean devs never really think about it effecting their international audience. I have to give IMC credit for acknowledging it and taking measures against it.

3 Likes
#18

another premise i forgot to mention. people tend to associate RMT to bots. reasonable but that’s not necessary. the discussion will be always be quite messy as long as we talk about them as if they’re interchangeable terms. here my thoughts on this:

  • no game can completely get rid of bots and RMT; even if you can get rid of one, the other can exist. (i.e. even without bots, people still can sell their accounts, in-game items and money for real-time currency which they earned without botting. the same thing can be said of the converse - if by any miraculous way, IMC gets rid of any trading feature to allow any form of trading in-game currencies for real-time money, people will always have a reason to bot - leveling or earning money for their own)
  • Regarding the spam/phishing bots, it’s merely a lack of action from IMC on this matter. the other games i’ve been playing can easily filter and regulate these kinds of spam-bots. even add-ons have somehow solved that problem to the point it doesn’t make gameplay unbearable let alone be a reason for someone to quit.

also, while it’s probable most RMT transactions include bot-harvested resources, half of the problem are the buyers, quite literally speaking. obviously, as long as there’s a market for selling in-game items and currencies for real-time money, people will always find a way to conduct transactions - which i dont think needs further elaboration.

2 Likes
#19

This is the only solution to prevent rmt and pointless posts like this.

2 Likes
#20

Not all actually. I’ve played at least one self-found mmo.

Basically : NO trade system…at all… and guess what? it was FUN.

Of course that wont apply here but just sayin’ :x.

Anyhows, RMT sucks. But there’ll always be ppl who don’t care sadly.

1 Like