One problem about grinding is there are some classes that can’t grind (most of it is Archer tree)
Grinding is fun with the right amount. If too much, it’s become boredom.
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Or at least put repeatable quests so the grind will be meaninfull in some way.
WoW was able to live during 10 years with 5+ millions of players, Ragnarok online can’t say the same thing. So before bashing WoW, ask yourself : “how ToS can have a long happy life ?”
Grinding without a goal is meaningless and will put off players.
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and consider that grinding in RO was a lot better (fun) than grinding in ToS
This happens because archers don’t have good AoE, and as the mechanics work, killing 4 mobs at one time is more effective than killing 1, even a higher level one.
So as an archer you can attack from afar (which means nothing since in melee range you take almost no damage unless you fight monstes of higher levels, which give almost no extra exp, so why even)
They dont have the 50% bonus from strike, pierce, slash (which shouldn’t be a flat ±50%, btw).
Even when going 1v1 other classes are stronger.
Attack Speed is fixed.
And so on. Most of the problems can be fixed in one patch, but makes archer class feel insanely underwhelming.
Did you even played wow in Vanilla? If you compared it to that, sure, that game was Awesome, AND the grinding was not mandatory for end game content, as i said. It was mainly for fun. You could fight people with 2 levels of difference and it would be fun.
BUT, people are comparing it to WoW now, which is a dead game. People only play it because they invested too much time and money already, because your raiding party is gonna kill you if you leave or the story and then they leave.
Try going with a fresh max level character against a full raid gear one, is a Stomp. You get 1 shoted. There is no choice in the characters, fixed stats, fixed gear, you cant go like “hey, i can avoid 90% of the boss skills, i wanna do more damage since i don’t need this much HP” or the opposite. So just ilvl makes your damage and resistances.
This is also annoying because of the “aggro mechanic” with SUCKS. Why even go any defensive stats if you can just go Full DPS and not get attacked once? And no, those AoE spells are not the solution, that’s just a poor attempt to make it so that you don’t just AFK AA.
The thing that made all the games i mentioned above great is that, there is choice in how to build, becase there was always a risk of taking damage, so you had to balance your stats according to your style, what you though you needed to survive. You could go 0 defensive stats if you were a God at avoiding damage (much like League of legends).
WoW game is dying because of all those changes.
And to be fair, Ro still exists to this day, the amount of people playing on unofficial servers is insane. The game died because official servers couldn’t keep up with the demand (Ro needed low ping to play at “high level”, wow does not), they payment system was badly implemented (and kids couldn’t be able to pay, different to wow were you could farm gold for it and didnt need a credit card).
And just to avoid answering a stupid question, i played wow with 350ping, doing heroic raids with no issue at all.
As someone stated, in Ro if you didnt wanted to grind for levels or quest for levels, you could always do something else, you could grind for cards, or gear or headset items, which could be extremely challenging or a relaxed cakewalk while chatting with friends depending on what you wanted to farm. You could also just walk around and see what’s what, maybe you get a random card or gear. You could walk checking the market for bargains.
The other thing was that endgame wasn’t a mandatory. Here, for example, people who want to dual wield or be monks or summon a demon NEED to get to level 120-177. In Ro boring grind was to job 50, after that, change class, and everything was fun again, you got a quick 15 job levels to get the main skills you needed and you were good to go. Sure, more levels made you stronger, but you already had what you needed to play the game as the class and in the way you wanted. This is also why most “full builds” were considered at lvl 90-95, because the difference was made by gear and build, not by the last levels.
All of this. Also i miss vanilla it was so much better and in vanilla you didn’t have to grind but you could, grinding is how i chose to lvl in vanilla and i out paced all of my friends. pretty sure wow is the only game to get worse each expansion lol.
To be honest i didn’t play vanilla, i started playing at Cataclysm, but i have listen to my friends talk about the changes and such, and they make it sound like vanilla was a good game.
Currently they have this inhuman design for “bonuses” if you cant log 1 day you get punished. And have to spend to much time doing stuff, just not worth. Too many tasks, too little choices.
I feel sorry for you. I quite shortly after cata started couldn’t handle the abuse of them making the game worse and worse.
I feel you man, at first it was like “oh man, this game is awesome” and then it was like, gearfarming simulator.
ppl just forgot what happened to ragnarok 2 
Ro 2 wasn’t Ro2 it was a wow clone with new paint on it.
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Thats where full nostalgia abuse and bad mechanics / gameplay take you. Like Diablo 2 / Diablo 3. Path of Exile is the new Diablo 3 xD.
It’s not that grinding is bad, it’s that they make the grinding extremely boring because they think people like to mindlessly kill the same monsters over and over and over that offer no challenge and low reward. Look at Black Desert, they removed the difficulty because that’s what they think we like.
Speaking of Path of Exile, I wish games would start to follow what they’re doing. PoE is a grinder, you don’t get exp from quests, you only have a main quest that only serve to direct you through the content and a few side quests that offer some bonus or items. What make grinding fun in that game? Because of how diversified the game is. Maps and items are randomized. Some monsters and maps have random modifiers. Build diversity is much higher. Character progression is less linear, you always have to think about what items you should use, where are you gonna put your next skill points. Another big thing is AoE, you can build a character to have big AoE skills to kill entire screen of monsters and that’s fun. It’s not fun to kill monsters one by one because your AoE are too small or because they run around too much or because they aren’t enough of them, when you need to kill 1000s of them. Every monsters have a chance to drop about anything depending on the monster’s level. Monsters are actually challenging, normal monsters can kill you if your build is crap or if you’re not careful.
ToS build system have potential but it’s another mmo that fail yet again and making normal monsters grinding interesting. It’s going to be botted to death, the economy is gonna crash, in fact people are already afk auto-attack to farm.
TLDR: ToS need better item diversity (items that matters for builds), better AoE skills, more monsters to kill, more interesting normal monsters. The solution is not to mask the crappiness of the grind with quests.
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RO2 was one of those rare mmos that made me, and I kid you not it really does happen, feel physically ill 5 mins into playing it, the only two other mmos to have ever done that is WoW, and ESO. Only the worst of the worst mmos can do that to me.
if u think WoW and ESO are the “worst of worst mmos” u are probably ill
dude, seems dance n sing a song mmo its good for you :v
Yea they actually are, and I know my MMOs better than you do. WoW is just extreamly overhyped garbage overhyped done right, thats been going into a downward crapshoot spiral of piss and feces since Wrath, and ESO, lol, my god, I know their may be even worse mmos out there but thing is, I never played them, if I did, they would probably make me vomit on the spot from how bad they are, but WoW and ESO, are bad enough to make me have nausea.
But yea ESO is pretty bad, Devs dont know what they are doing anymore in the game, cant balance it, cant make meaningful content, they keep going one direction or the other with no damn clue what they are doing and when a MMO gets bad enough that even the fanboys of said mmo says the game is bad, well, heh, its a crap sandwich.
So yea kiddo, they are two of the worst of the worst, for various reasons, ESO way more so.