Yeah FYI, I researched this build for quite some time before committing. I’m a ro1 player and I know the consequences of screwing up a build. They dont even have skill resets. I’m not the type of person to blindly jump into builds before even knowing any jackshit about it. Thanks. Just goes to prove the amount of ■■■■ people post before proving it in reality, and I’m just one of the ‘silly’ victims. DWA falls off late game as AA falls off late game as monsters defenses rise.
Like I said, I will give attributes a go. I appreciate your comments but you don’t have to be a wise ass about it. Still till now nobody has answered me regarding viability in ET, other end game stuff. Are you guys sure you’re really high level swordies? If you are then by all means share your current experience in the end game meta as it will be valuable information to me. Viability in the sense where are we still wanted in parties and whatnot. And not only as a pure taunter, lol. Thanks.
Well, there is not much to be done if you picked it because of playing style factors.
Unfortunately, in our current “meta”, the higher DPS builds must take Doppelsoeldner C1, otherwise they just put themselves on a disadvantage. With Shinobi perhaps being the exception when it comes to burst damage.
Cyclone alone on the right targets can easily deal those 100k you are looking for. And Deeds of Valor would have enhanced the rest of your kit quite considerably.
It multiplies your final damage.
We had a real Full STR during the level 200 cap. Even back then in iCBT2, I recommended to add more points into DEX as those extra points on the full STR weren’t doing as much as those extra points would have on DEX or even CON.
Right now I still recommend that the “Full STR” (only reserved for PvE Hoplite C3 builds) adds some points into DEX to make it work once the equipment and gems are acquired.
It is also important to note that just getting Finestra level 15 won’t magically make everything work. The build is on wait while better equipment and gems are acquired.
More DEX can be added earlier on to compensate for equipment that isn’t there yet. So it is a decision between having that power spike earlier or taking the “optimal” path while waiting for equipment for it to truly reach it’s potential.
But it is not something that will “click” instantly.
Earth Tower is just an artificial and temporary solution to the “end game” of this game. But the truth is, there is no real end game for now, the game is pretty much empty at higher levels in terms of content.
The entire Tower might only be completed until we get a level cap raise and/or Rank 8. Perhaps with a group spending a lot of silver on their characters to max out all their relevant attributes could do something about it, but we will have to wait and see how far the most dedicated groups get.
(kTOS hasn’t completed the entire tower as of yet, and the game has been out for quite a few months so far over there).
Other than that, Earth Tower is a “anything goes” type of content. There are and there will be many people trying out different compositions to try to beat each level and more levels of it.
There are a few builds that are aimed for because they have proven to be more successful on kTOS, but at the same time there have been multiple party compositions that have beaten floors of it without said builds.
My answer is that it depends on who you are with. Your friends, guild, the people you group constantly with. The party compositions that you form with them will determine your success on this content. Trying to do Earth Tower with randoms is not going to end well, so it is not like you will have to deal with that.
Most likely than not is that you will find a group of players to play with at higher levels, because not everyone is trying to do Earth Tower. Many people are just playing around with alts or taking a break from the game.
You have Peltasta on your build, so you will have a spot on any party. But you will have to find a close group of friends or a guild if you really want to give a “serious” go to Earth Tower.
EDIT:
And the same goes for PvP and GvG. It depends on your friends, guild, etc. Unless you try to join some extremely elitist people (which there are not that many on this game), you are not going to run into any problems with anyone “not wanting” you because of your build.
Ah, this is the type of reply I was looking for, viability. Thanks @Cathexis. Still looking out for more actual experiences of other players playing the same class who are doing earth tower or other end game stuff. Good to know.
Just a side question, if dragoon isn’t meant for dps, then what IS it actually for? Can’t be for tanking purposes, and aoe wise it loses out to cyclone as well. Does that mean it is an inferior circle right now and probably only good for cata players? Also, in terms of pvp, I know it’s unbalanced right now, but in whatever state it is in right now, would dragoon or doppel be better as rank 7 in my build? Seeing the spin2win requires full duration to be at its best potential, we could be potentially stunned or disabled while spinning right?
Dragoon is good for Cata cause if I am not mistaken you can’t be on mount and spin. So far Doppel C2 gives the best damage in the swordsman tree cause of the Deed of Valor that easily gives 100% extra physical attack and attack speed but minus 100% defense so it’s dependent on cleric class to support sometimes. Additionally most end game mob are mostly magical so -100% defense feels like okay to me since it doesn’t affect the magic defense. Cyclone also does a lot of multi hits and damage - Lvl 5 gives…3 hits every second and last 4 seconds That means about 12 hits at lvl 5.
Well pain barrier could help with avoiding knocked down but can’t help with stun, freeze and others =(
I had the same dilemma once on going to Dragoon or Doppel cause Dragoon’s costume is awesome but after thorough calculation of damage (Cyclone + Deed of Valor against Dragoon’s 3 others damaging skill) Dragoon…gives you more skill rotation but I didnt do calculation to see if 3 skills of Dragoon will be on par to Doppel’s Deed of Valor + Cyclone. Maybe they are actually on par. Let me do some calculation here…correct me if I am wrong okay?
Given if the build is high str build with about…200 str let’s say and with a good weapon you would have 800 physical attack let’s say
800 physical attack + Deed of valor level 5 buff = 1200 physical attack
Cyclone’s damage at level 5
(1200 + 844) * 3 hit/sec * 4 second * 2 over heat * 1.2 (level 20 attributes let’s say since it’s affordable?) = 58 867 damage without critical, 88 300 damage with critical but this is highly unlike since this means you got critical on every hit XD
Dragoon 3 skills (Dragontooth + Serpentine + Gae Bulg) combined at level 5 for each skill and no Deed of Valor buff.
Dragontooth: (800+ 714) * 5 hits * 1.2 (level 20 attributes let’s say since it’s affordable?) = 9 084 without critical, 13 626 with critical
Serpentine: (800 + 926) * 4 hits * 1.2 (level 20 attributes let’s say since it’s affordable?) = 8 284 without critical, 12 427 with critical
Gae Bulg = (800+ 3812) * 1.2 (level 20 attributes let’s say since it’s affordable?) = 5 534 without critical, 8 301 with critical
Given Dragoon’s skill has shorter cooldown then Cyclone, let’s say within 50-60 seconds duration:
Dragontooth has 17 seconds cooldown and Serpentine has 20 seconds cooldown, meaning both can be used 3 times within 60 seconds duration. Gae Bulg has 30 seconds cooldown so 2 times within 60 seconds duration.
3 x Dragontooth + 3 x Serpentine + 2 x Gae Bulg =
(3 * 9 084) + (3 * 8 284) + (2 * 5 534) = 63 172 without critical, 94 758 with critical
Seems pretty good with Dragoon. Given Hoplite 2 build, you have higher chance to critical, less dependent on 1 skill alone and has more skill rotation.
Just to see if I calculate correctly, let me see how Dragoon compares against Doppel C2.
800 physical attack + Deed of valor level 10 buff = 1600 physical attack
Cyclone level 10
(1600 + 1355) * 3 hit/sec * 5 second * 2 over heat * 1.2 (level 20 attributes let’s say since it’s affordable?) = 106 380 damage without critical, 159 570 with critical
Redel
(1600 + 732) * 5 hits * 1.2 (level 20 attributes let’s say since it’s affordable?) = 13 992 without critical, 20 988 with critical
Zucken
(1600 + 860) * 4 hits * 1.2 (level 20 attributes let’s say since it’s affordable?) = 11 808 without critical, 17 712 with critical
Redel has 25 seconds cooldown so 2 times and Zucken has 20 seconds cooldown so 3 times within 60 seconds duration. Cyclone has 45 seconds cooldown so 1 time within 60 seconds duration.
(2 x Redel) + (3 x Zucken) + (1 x Cyclone) =
(2 x 13 992) + (3 x 11 808) + 106 380 = 169 788 without critical, 254 682 with critical
Seems like Doppel makes more sense if you plan to take Doppel C2. Else Dragoon seems a a pretty good choice too.
It is still an offensive DPS class, but it is not the highest DPS in PvE unless you pair it with a Hoplite C3->Doppel C1->Dragoon build.
On the other hand, Cataphract can’t use Cyclone while mounted, that is why Dragoon is a much better choice to go for when it comes to dealing more damage.
This is the type of scenario where Dragoon becomes a better “DPS” class option in your build.
Like you said, even with the attribute Cyclone is still vulnerable to being interrupted or people running away from it, so it is better paired with good CC to guarantee that you can get a good amount of it’s duration on the target.
This of course is not really a problem in PvE because with good timing/positioning you will have the full duration of it and mainly why it wins when it comes to dealing high DPS in PvE.
However, if Cyclone gets interrupted or if it can’t deal it’s full duration of damage then it’s value goes considerably down. This is where Dragoon shines.
Dragoon has much shorter cooldowns and it doesn’t rely on 1 single skill to deal damage. If you miss one, no problem, you have other 3 on your kit to use after that.
In the end Dragoon has more windows of opportunity to deal damage, while Doppel has to place all it’s plan on the success of Cyclone and if it fails then it is not left with much.
Either way, PvP and GvG is a highly changing environment and there is no “true” answer as to what is the “best”, as there is simply no best. It all depends on your skill as a player (maybe your ping), the people on your party and their builds, the builds on the other party, etc. But when taking all of those things into consideration, Dragoon has more flexibility to succeed as it is not as linear as Cyclone.
While the first one will deal more damage on PvE, it pretty much has no reliable form of CC on it’s build, so it’s flexibility on playing style during PvP is pretty poor.
Meanwhile the Corsair build has one of the best skills, Iron Hook, plus much higher burst damage (Hexen Dropper), which deals damage almost instantly compared to Stabbing/Cyclone which are the main damage tools of the other build.
In the end your build is a lot more balanced than the first one when it comes to covering every aspect of the game (PvE, PvP, GvG).
Sure, you might not deal the highest damage in PvE but you are getting more valuable tools that make your character better on other areas.
To be fair, OP’s build isn’t that bad. However there’s a few expectations that fell short:
Cataphract c3 is COMPULSORY for PVP. This was established long ago on these forums.
Dual wielding and DWA is inferior in DPS to 2H weapon builds. I see so many corsair builds on these forums trying to be dps, boy are they going to be disappointed.
Honestly i think if OP took off corsair and went Hoplite c3 > Doppel then his damage would be solid.
Building a character is about determining CLEARLY what you want at the beginning of the game and focusing on it. You need to ask yourself this:
PVE or PVP? If latter, get cataphract
DPS or tank? If you choose DPS you have VERY limited choice to make it work. Pretty much the build i posted above. There’s only about 2 viable DPS builds but if you choose to be a tank you have slightly more flexability, since as long as you have Peltasta, stats matter more in terms of tanking.
All I can say is, be very careful who you listen to for advice on these forums. If someone is telling you something that’s vastly different from the general consensus about a particular issue, I’d be very cautious of their “advice”…
I posted this on the other thread, but since pvp is the topic atm, I wanna ask what your thoughts are on spr if it truly gives ailment resistance as this thread claims?
Also Im going hop c3, Doppel, Dragoon and I am mainly a pvp player. I know its not the best build but I don’t see myself having fun with the other classes. Can I ask if a 4 2 1 Str, Con, Dex allocation will work? Or should I pump up more Con.
My build swordsc2>hoplite3>dopp>dragoon
I could tell u I can burst 100k for either stabbing or serpentine. However I’m quite decent geared (Max peta,+8 catacombs pike with 5* green gem x 3 socketed, 1 sissel bracelet.
My concern on high level swordie is more on self susbstain. And yes, I invest arnd 40-50 level to my attributes. Swordie is very gear dependent and u need to spend a lot silvers to be viable.
Welcome to pain of not taking Corsair c3 and using a pistol. Cuz Long Stride works with Pistol and you can do some “softening up” from range while holding multiple targets chained for 19 seconds.
But still, don’t expect to do dmg in PvP. All you can is hook em for your teammates to do the actual dmg. And maybe soft em up a little with pistol. Maybe it will change if Murmillo gets non-knockdown attrib on it’s jump, but who knows?
Also, some stats for u: my lunge -> lvl10 hexen dropper does 9-10k dmg per tick in abbey, and 13k per tick to lvl 200 dungeon boss. But I have relatively high attributes, good gear and I don’t use Brandish on medium size monsters. There’s Maga Spear for this task. I also ever invested only ~15 points into dex, ~60 into con and all the rest went to str, while equipment and gems are all crit rate. My sissels proc frequently. I’m currently level 279. What i’m trying to say is that you CAN do dmg, but ofc you have to work much harder then other classes to get to that numbers. What did you expect from being a swordie anyway? Tons of dmg? Please.
Tho I do agree swordie dmg needs a buff. Cuz actually having to gap close to do the dmg and having small dmg at the same time is quite absurd PvP-wise.
Pistol Shot damage is poor. Please. Corsair3’s damage is poor, compared to taking Doppel/Dragoon or even Shinobi. It’s very niche. All you have is pistol shot that does poor damage + higher levels in Hexen. And longer Hook. Great.
I don’t expect TONS OF DAMAGE, but doing poor single target damage comparatively to stuff like ele3-wl (whose expertise is AOE) is just bad. So, you Hexen Dropper and deal like, what? 80k x2 small melee AOE damage? Then wait for a cooldown of 25-30s right? Great job. Speccing into DPS (otherwise I’d be a full CON Pel3-Squire), you’d expect 70% efficiency of other DPS classes and above at least. In most other games, Melee DPS most of the time are the classes that actually tops the DPS charts because the price you pay for having to get up close is the reward of dealing high damage, high risk high reward. I’d rather you take away my ‘3x HP’ that basically means nothing much late game and give me good DPS. And the 70% I mentioned is if the target is a dummy target, standing still and not attacking you. If you factor in knockbacks, time wasted from dodging attacks/aoe, you’d probably will cut at least another 25% from that 70%. My Ele3-WL friend does 600k - 900k and above per full rotation while maintaining RANGE and MOBILITY (drop a Frost Cloud and run around watch stuff just die). Let’s not even talk about R3F3s, shall we?
My post above is 28days old (at the time I’m writing this), I have been 280 for quite some time now, here’s an update for you guys:
I cannot get any WB cubes, by a far margin, even if there were only 20 people (I’m not even including peak hours where there are 50-80 people), I still can’t get it, I have upped most of my attributes to 50%. This is in Telsiai. My DPS is enough to hold aggro of the boss (boss aims me) but not enough to get a cube.
I got rejected from PvP guild due to reason of having a non-viable GvG/PvP build. Yes, Corsairs are not viable atm in PvP despite the nonsense people say about it being PvP, etc.
I have been trying ET with a fixed party (they only accepted me cause one of my friends are inside, otherwise they wouldn’t even want a DPS Swordie), basically I’m just only useful for taunting. And by taunting I meant taunting ONLY. Try and get hit, you will drop dead (with 30k HP) within 5-7 hits from mobs. Just to give you a good picture, I’m dealing with 20-30 mobs most of the time, if 20% of them gets one hit on me, I’m dead. By taking up a slot, I’m gimping my team’s DPS because trying to DPS from melee range is basically suicide, I have to turn off my Provocation and let my Ele3 take up the aggro before I can start DPSing (for Level 1 of ET, it’s a DPS check). As for levels 2-5, there’s no need for me to DPS anything. Level 5 boss will just rekt you if you go near. Melee just doesn’t work well in ET. We are better replaced by Cryos that can just suck all mobs in (hence increasing DPS indirectly by clumping mobs together) AND prevent damage by CCing them non stop. There are teams that are clearing levels 1-5 easily without a swordie. You’re only good (and worth that slot) if you’re full CON, preferably Pel3 as well. If you have no Pel circles at all, as a swordie, you can just sit outside, nobody’s gonna want you.
PvP-wise, we’re not much good, comparing to Cata3 or other DPS classes. The burst is ok, but we don’t have the gap closers required to do that. Without hook at melee range, trying to hit somebody with melee skills is like trying to hit a ninja.
Side note: I rerolled to CryoKino, am now lvl 210+. I can beat SWORDIES that’s 50+ levels ahead of me and still have full hp after winning. Whoopeedoo.
Conclusion: Unless you are not interested in PvP or end game content, and is fine with dealing mediocre damage and having to get into melee range to do it and also you’re just playing because you like the concept of Swordsman, go ahead. Otherwise, you’ll probably find yourself wasted 100-200 hours of lvling just to hit 280 and find out you’re basically pretty much not preferable (in other words, near-useless) for end game content (if you’re playing DPS oriented builds). I rerolled another character 2 days after hitting 280 while still trying ET with my Dragoon, I think that pretty much says a lot about it.
Mine is a PvP build. A ranged control type for GvG. I don’t expect to go in much. I didn’t go Corsair3 for the sake of dmg, because i’m not expected to do dmg. I went Corsair3 for hook duration, jump and ranged attack I can use while holding hook.
Yours is a build that can’t jump with hook without switching and can’t attack anything AT ALL while holding it, unless it comes right at ur face. You should have more dmg then me with dragoon, sure, but alas, you can’t place those attacks cuz they are melee.
What a pity.
And hey, I’m not saying that swordsmen rock. It’s true they have issues, and big ones.
You can hook 3 people, yeah, that’s what I said too to the PvP guilds, but then you are compared to Cryomancers and Psychokinos that can disable 10-20 people at a go, your 3-man hook with 25s cooldown is kinda meh. You don’t have a plus point above them, guild slots are limited, why would they want to waste it on a job that can basically only hook and do nothing else? Cryos can freeze multiple people & use Ice wall to create space, Kinos can CC through bloodletting, all this while dealing MORE damage that you can do and being ranged. Aaand you can hook 3 people (if you can land it accurately 100% consistently on targets that matter, not the frontliners, in the first place, at less than 5fps), if you miss, then basically you’re useless for 25s.
If you wanna say your job is just to hook and stay, I can do that too. I can just hook ppl and that’s it, maybe 5s lesser than you. I can do the exact same thing you can do, since you said you’re not expected to do damage. But if you can stand there for 19s not moving without dying in GvG I’d recommend you actually try it out first. Healers are prioritizing squishy DPS classes like wiz and archers for Safety zone, they won’t waste any on you. Unless you went full CON, your HP isn’t gonna last you long, DPS classes have sick damage. Reason it’s harder to die is because of mobility, many spells have to be aimed. But if you’re not moving, you’re just a sitting duck. And if you DID went full con, that would mean your damage would be crap, and this points us back to why would people take a 3-man disabler over a 10-20 man disabler… You’re using a pistol, and not a shield, and that doesn’t add to your survivability at all, you can’t even hold C and block.
Your plus point that you emphasise on is that you can attack with pistol while hooking. But if you’re dealing low damage while hooking, that isn’t much of a plus point at all… If you want to kill people you’d need burst damage, not some damage that the PD can just use healing factor to regen back. Not to mention, hook is at a ranged, you can’t even bring those 3 guys you hooked to your team, Cata3 at least can Impale one of them and bring them back to your side for the ultimate rekt. You would have to get your team into the enemies’ danger zone to actually do damage to the guys you hooked.
I can also jump when I hook, weapon switching is the LEAST of my problems (comparing to all the other problems), it’s only a technical difficulty that one has to get used to, the main problem is when you jump, they are knocked back, which gets them out of melee range. Even in your case it would still gimp your damage, your 80k hexen won’t able to touch them. Your pistol would probably give them a few scratches, ouch.
Until they fix this, I’m only seeing perhaps some potential in 5v5 Team Battle League, seeing hooking 3 people would render 3/5 people disabled, letting the other 4 members of your team to rekt the remaining 2 in the 15-19s that they have. As for GvG, it’s a no-no as for now.
Hook also has much more range then psycho skills and cryo skills are countered by PD easily (not the tree ofc, but it’s also just one skill, which doesnt exactly make you unable to do things). With GvG being 15x15 in one party, you only need 2 PDs for the whole guild to be immune to that kind of control 100% time. Hook works the same way as skillshots in mobas with one exception - the farther the target, the easier it is to land, because it’s AoE is actually a cone - you can see it with Oracle in a party. Hook also works through bloodletting and you can hold two hooks at a time if cooldown is reset by a chronomancer. Finally, corsair3 may avoid skills like Frost Cloud being placed under him while he holds hook by jumping away. Jump is only used for gapclosing in duels, it’s more of an escape tool. Good luck switching weapons in PvP btw.
