Tree of Savior Forum

Peltasta + Doppelsoeldner. Need advice

Class and Rank
#1

Going for a block monster with good dps and some pvp ability. Needs to be tanky while at the same time has good solo PVE ability.
I don’t want the generic Peltasta > Hoplite C3
The idea for my class is getting 5/5 Deeds of Valor to remove the -50% attack from High Guard. I will still gain the bonus attack speed. Hopefully the large amount of block will compensate the pdef loss, might even be better.

Torn between these 3 options.

Tank + CC. Full CON or STR1:3CON or 1STR:1CON
15/15 Umbo & Rim Blow + High Guard + Deeds of Valor.

Tank + CC. Same stats as 1st one. Can go for some evasion (DEX) maybe?
Slightly less DPS and block, more debuffs. PVP oriented.

Tank + DPS. 1 STR 1 CON 1 DEX
Highest raw block output. Good dps. Lacks CC

#2

lol you waste tons of points in High Guard and Deeds of Valor just to get some attack speed? I don’t think it worth because if you are in party you can have cleric buff, max limit buff is 5 and you waste 2 slots for bonus attack speed. Just choose 1 or use your points in other skills.

#3

I will try this:

with stats at level 200:

All Leather armor(+50% evasion), gems for crit_rate and block/evasion.

My research show that stat allocation is not rate based, is something like str=dex+c , c - depend of crit_chance you want.

#4

@kminh9999 would help if you read the beginning of my post and the title and see what i’m trying to achieve with this build.
@go9dannow that’s what i’m trying to avoid though. going peltasta > hoplite > hoplite > hoplite. i understand that it’s pretty much the best setup for tanky dps atm which is why i don’t want it

#5

He’s right though, you’re crippling your damage with High Guard and then trying to fix it with Deeds of Valor, putting you back at square 1 with a -100 crit debuff and all that for 240 extra block.

#6

@Bremze yea… Finestra is too good and High Guard needs some sort of scaling, -50% just sucks
what do you think of the 330% 15/15 Umbo and Rim blows with High Guard on and Deeds of Valor on max stacks while having +240 block?

#7

How about going for Swordsman > Peltasta > Peltasta > Barbarian > Barbarian > Doppelsoeldner
You can get more dps with Frenzy and Warcry. Seism and Helm Chopper are aoe stun and Cleave have +50 crit chance.

#8

you could switch doppel. with fencer in your first build: p2/3>r>fencer
high guard shouldn’t affect skill damage. spam skills, you get bonus to pierce damage and a defence debuff, and your cc. go con with enough dex for accuracy.

1 Like
#9

High Guard is a terrible skill right now. 240 block is not a lot and certainly not enough to justify halving your damage and decreasing crit by 100.

Guardian is even worse, at level 15 it gives +35 defence which is NOTHING. A level 170 crappy shield gives 64 defence:

Peltasta is pretty broken right now and needs a fix badly…

#10

perhaps they should have +defence% up and -50% attack on guardian, with the def+ attribute. then +block and -crit on high guard with evade% attribute…or block%.

#11

The point here is he wants to keep High Guard and want Doppelsoeldner for rank 6

#12

Doppelsoeldner’s Deeds of Valor at max stacks increases attack speed by 50% but at the same time reduces defense by 50%. If you don’t block the attack and you get hit, you are going to die much faster than not using Deeds of Valor.
Also I mentioned +240 block from High Guard is not a lot when you’re getting close to 2000 block at level 200.
Deeds of Valor is more for a build that has little defense to begin with (eg. 2H weapon + DEX build) and won’t matter too much if they half their defense by using this skill.

It just doesn’t work to be honest…

#13

@tomredwait wait, so skill damage doesn’t get reduced by High Guard? I could totally see a fencer working then.
Also, attack speed. Does it only affect basic attacks or does the game have some sort of GCD?
Sorry I haven’t actually played the game yet. Still theorycrafting.

#14

High Guard decreases your damage by 50% (x0.5), 100 crit rate is around 40% (~0.80x). If damage modifiers are additive:

Damage without High Guard = (100% + 50%) x 1.2 = 180%
Damage with High Guard = (100% - 50% + 50%) x 1 = 100%

If damage modifiers are multiplicative:

Damage without High Guard = (100% x 1.5) x 1.2 = 180%
Damage with High Guard = (100% x 0.5 x 1.5) x 1 = 75%

This is assuming perfect Deeds of Valor uptime which is impossible but good enough for napkin math.

If the damage tradeoff feels worth it for flat 240 block, go right ahead.

Edit: if High Guard doesn’t affect skills then Deeds of Valor doesn’t either since both of them modify Attack.

#15

i thought they affect your stats attack rate, from weapons and strength. there’s a thread somewhere with how damage works.

#16

High Guard gets bad press, but it doesn’t deserve it. We are talking about a skill that gives you a decent flat bonus to block, without needing to press C. Most shields give barely any block on their own, and most of the block you get is from when you press C. The bonus Finestra gives is designed to work either in tandem with High Guard, or when you press C.

Due to this, Peltasta/Hoplite builds are heavily based on block and defense. Peltasta on its own, or with other later class options, is a great candidate to combine block and dodge together. The goal of a high block character is typically to ride out cooldowns by absorbing incoming damage with a shield. To compliment that, you either want to boost your block rate higher, or have evasion as a secondary countermeasure.

If you plan on being a high CON character, go Peltasta/Hoplite and absorb the big damage with your C button in between cooldowns. High Guard can guard you automatically while you are not pressing C, if you wish, or you can leave it be. The block rate of auto-blocking with High Guard is nice, but it won’t compare to manual blocking with C. High Guard is neither good or bad for this class mix, but the skill points you use on High Guard might be more beneficial elsewhere. It is mostly about personal preference.

If you plan on being a high DEX character and still want to be a Peltasta, you can use High Guard if you want to, but it is not necessary. Guardian (Evasion attribute) becomes a must-have.

I feel this is a thread @WatchGintama would be able to give some advice in. See some of WatchGintama’s gameplay here:

Jaim Games also made a great tank, without High Guard, perfectly illustrating how you can build a Peltasta without relying on HG:

Personally, I like HG, but realize that it is a skill you use in between other skill cooldowns. When HG runs dry, you move back into your combat phase and spam a few damage skills before reinitiating HG, pressing C, or running to the next mob.

#19

My mind is set for now. Thanks for everyone’s input.

EDIT: removed super secret build :banana:

1 Like
#20

:wink:

:hear_no_evil: :see_no_evil: :speak_no_evil: