EDIT: there’s one relevant question left. Can Divine Might be used in order to add +1 to the level of scrolls made through Simony?
Other than that though, most have been answered. Feel free to read up on the thread, there’s a lot of nice information that doesn’t easily come by
Previously answered questions:
1. For making Simony scrolls after these last months' updates, I've both heard that the scroll level only depends on Simony's level (lv5 Simony = lv5 Scroll) and that it depends on the original skill's level too (the lowest between Simony and skill-being-scrolled level will be the scroll's level). Which is true?
Do buffs sold on Spell Shop use your attributes for them? And for anyone who might play kToS, does the Pardoner’s SPR/INT affect the strength of sold Blessings?
What classes/skills do Discerning Evil have good synergy with? In particular, it can make PD’s Incineration have 100% upkeep, which sounds pretty op, but are there other important/worthwhile combinations?
How does Indulgentia even work. The tosbase description is confusing, saying “applies the whole party” and right below “applies a maximum of x times”. Does this mean that it’s party-wide debuff removal, but with limited number of debuffs removed?
It worked like that in the past, but currently this effect has been changed. Making a scroll will get the minimum skill level you have among Simony and the skill you want to make a scroll of.
Yes! This is actually very easy to notice. Some people sell lvl 15 Blessing but with only +70 damage (no attribute) and others sell lvl 15 Blessing with +170 damage (max attribute). The additional hit count attribute for blessing also works.
They have mentioned in the kToS update thread that the INT/SPR bonus will not get applied to pardoner blessings.
Hmm… It’s hard to think of an as good combo or better. The thing about Incineration is that it has really short duration and an effect that depends directly on the duration (amount of damage), which is why discerning evil influences it a lot. Hardly other cleric classes have nice, useful, short durations debuffs that scale better with longer duration.
However, it still works with your party members debuffs, so it can be used to extend freeze duration, etc.
As far as I know, it removes whole party of debuffs of rank 2 or lower. It won’t prevent them from being debuff again right after, though.
The allies count are allies outside your party. That means pets, other players (except in PvP), traps, etc.
It will damage enemies but the damage, as far as I know, is not really that good and not worth building for.
As an additional info for simony scrolls, I’ve heard they actually count as a different cooldown than your skills. So if you’re a Paladin 3 -> Pardoner, you can use your own Barrier (enter the 40 sec cooldown), and then still use the Barrier scroll with an independent 40 sec cooldown on it.
I haven’t really played pardoner, though. All this information is stuff i’ve read from the forums in the past.
alright, thanks a lot for the info! Seems I’ll have to rework one of my Pardoner builds then.
[quote=“mrshadowccg, post:2, topic:297947”]
Yes! This is actually very easy to notice. Some people sell lvl 15 Blessing but with only +70 damage (no attribute) and others sell lvl 15 Blessing with +170 damage (max attribute). The additional hit count attribute for blessing also works.
[/quote]How would you be able to tell if the seller has attributes or not, then? In particular, the 25% dark resist on Sacrament is pretty important.
[quote=“mrshadowccg, post:2, topic:297947”]
Hmm… It’s hard to think of an as good combo or better. The thing about Incineration is that it has really short duration and an effect that depends directly on the duration (amount of damage), which is why discerning evil influences it a lot. Hardly other cleric classes have nice, useful, short durations debuffs that scale better with longer duration.
However, it still works with your party members debuffs, so it can be used to extend freeze duration, etc.
[/quote]Yeah, I meant this with more than 1 person in the first place. Neither of the Pardoner builds I’m planning on are rolling PD. ^^’
But yeah, extending freeze sounds pretty op, and easily applicable.
The additional info on scrolls is pretty useful, thanks for that o.o. In particular, doesn’t it mean it heavily benefits SPR Krivis by shortening the Zalciai cooldown enough for it to be used much more often? There’s a huge freedom gain on Aukuras usage too…
…and Turn Undead spam… wow. Those and Barrier (and maybe Cure on INT builds) are the only ones I see being useful, though.
You find a pardoner, buy his buffs, find a mob, attack it, realize they didn’t have any attributes, go back to town, find the pardoner, block him, insult his mother, set his house on fire, then cry.
From my own experience, the pardoners selling the cheapest buffs are usually the @holes that don’t have any attributes and try to demolish the competition.
Yes but remember scrolls have a cost to make. It might not be that cheap spamming Zalciai around with scrolls (since its a skill you need to be using all the time).
Scrolls cost also directly depend on the Skill Level, so if you want something as level 15 Cure scrolls, you’re going to pay a considerable amount of silver for them (I cant remember exactly how much it was per level). Also, you’d need pardoner 3 for that (to have Simony lvl 15).
Also reminds me, scrolls don’t have an overheat either. So TU scroll will only have 1 use then enter cooldown.
EDIT:
I wrote Zaibas but you can’t make Zaibas scrolls.
[quote=“mrshadowccg, post:4, topic:297947”]
You find a pardoner, buy his buffs, find a mob, attack it, realize they didn’t have any attributes, go back to town, find the pardoner, block him, insult his mother, set his house on fire, then cry.
[/quote]LOL, will do. But yeah, I should probably watch out for whoever’s too much below the market price.
If I spammed them, it’d be around 3 scrolls per minute… for an hour, it’s 180 scrolls, which could get really expensive yeah. Might be fine for dungeons or specific situations though.
If I used Cure scrolls it’d only be to help me level on my INT build if I get lazy. They don’t need to be particularly high level. and are TU scrolls worth using at all then?
Well if your Cure scrolls aren’t high level they won’t deal many hits. They will be probably pretty weak.
You can use it, but, is the 5k talt you’re going to get in the end of the dungeon worth the ~2k per scroll you used to kill ~4 additional mobs with TU?
Truth be told, I don’t see many scrolls being popular aside from Daino and Barrier.
Of course, if your silver tends to infinity, all scrolls are worth spamming
Ah well, you know. Pardoner is like the merchant class in RO.
They theorically make good money but also spend a lot of money with their skills (scrolls, indulgentia, oblation, etc).
Like I said, I’m not really a Pardoner player. Maybe someone can actually come here and tell you “hey, it’s ok to spend all those silvers on scroll spamming because as a pardoner you can make that money back easily.”
So don’t have your dreams crushed yet
EDIT:
Btw there are rumors that Simony is actually going to get a rework.
@mrshadowccg Nah, from what I’ve gathered Pardoner’s money-making is actually the shittiest out of all crafting classes… as in, can’t expect to make any money at all, be it through Simony or Spell Shop.
That was enough to make me drop the idea of a Spell Shop pard entirely, but Simony is still good to make my own scrolls, and MDEF buff and Discerning Evil are both pretty good. So there’s reason enough for Pard1 still, just not for 2, seeing as all I’d get that’s worth my time would be higher levels of Discerning Evil/MDEF.
and yeah, so I've heard. They're further nerfing it :D
Seems like IMC was outraged at how Simony in particular makes Krivis much less wanted. Well, at least Krivis’s still getting actual use though, unlike Paladin. This was back from Nov 2015 and no word since then…
I dunno, I feel Simony’s fine, it’s just they don’t know the meta. Just… buff aukuras enough to make it good and make it unscrollable, buff Paladin and make Barrier unscrollable, that’d be enough. But as it stands they’re probably just going to turn Simony into something useless…
I keep hearing people say Pardoner Barrier/Daino scrolls defeats the point of rolling a non-Pardoner Paladin/Krivis. Barrier scrolls I understand since you only use Barriers in a few select instances. But as for Daino, that’s something you’d want to keep up the entire time inside a dungeon. So how much does it cost to keep Daino up in the higher end dungeons?
[quote=“mrshadowccg, post:11, topic:297947”]
The average dungeon run lasts from 30 minutes to 40 minutes (depending on the dungeon).
[/quote]Which translates to 18~24k for lv1 Daino, or 45~60k for lv5. aka expensive. @kfmc08
It does make Krivis “useless” if you’d only get it for Daino in specific circumstances though. For PvP/GvG for example, it won’t cost you an eye to provide scrolls… unless you do nothing but PvP all day. So, in that situation, it’d be much better to roll a more pvp-oriented circle.
However, it should be noted that IMC has voiced vocal concern about Pardoner making some classes much less wanted, and in particular about Krivis's Daino. (Maybe Daino scrolls are cheaper in KR, and they _do_ have a lot more money available than us bc it's way easier to farm.) They've stated a Pardoner revamp is in the works because of that... and the easiest way to revamp what they're concerned about at this point is to just make Daino unscrollable, which will make Krivis so ■■■■■■■ meta it won't be even funny.
It’s true this concern was raised back in Nov 2015, and we’ve gotten no word about that since then… they’re probably busy fixing lag and fps issues, which are more urgent. But something will happen eventually, and IMC has shown to not be the best ever at balancing, so personally I fully expect Krivis to become meta to the point they’ll prob have to buff everyone’s buff limits lol.
Divine might increases Simony level (I was able craft lv1 -> lv2 Deprotected Zone scrolls for increased cost). I have lv3 DZ and cannot verify DZ lvl increase for Simony however.
But I’m using DM to increase skill levels of Buffs for my Spell Shop. I guess it will work the same way with Simony.
