Tree of Savior Forum

Overkill XP x2.5

General Discussion
#21

@MadHatter i have a lvl 129 Barbarian and i can tank mobs well enough. Mages are a problem for all dodge classes, not just Barbarian. An Archer has maybe half of the HP pool a Swordsman class has and gets hit just as often because of long range magic missiles. Your stated reasons have nothing to do with Barbarians but rather overall game mechanics, please dont make it sound as if only this one class suffers from these conditions.

Nowhere in this thread have i said that i would like Barbarian to be nerfed. This discussion is about the overkill mechanic so please stick to the topic. If you want my personal opinion though. No, i dont find Barbarians OP. I simply think that other classes are a tad underpowered if anything. So, if i had anything to say about it, i would buff the weaker classes up instead of toning classes that perform well down.

@Setsuko Well, if you got a beta invite trough legit means, then i stand corrected and congratulate you on those. That doesnt change the fact however that your demeanor is insulting and unpleasant. Please refrain from vituperating other players especially if you cant bring anything remotely constructive to the conversation. Still, i feel we started off on the wrong foot here and i would like to go as far as to extend an apology for my rude behaviour if i offended you in any way. I respect that you got your opinion, so please respect mine as well. After all, thats what a discussion should be about.

6 Likes
#22

I have stated reasons that have to do with Barbarian. You said they have high defense and tank but when I did a battle, their defense sucks, plus I too did grind at the Royal Mouselum 2F in which the mobs are using magic and took a lot of damage and had to bail out. Even with high DEX, I can’t even tank a lot of mobs for grind, it’s more to a boss sweep build, then again even with bosses that use magical attacks, I still having trouble. Like I said, high HP pool doesn’t mean anything if you take like what, 300-500 damage per second (assuming you have 5k HP at level 70 or so and don’t take CON).

What I meant is that Barbarian is not even OP to begin with. Their attacks, yeah sure, but everything else falls into a grey zone. Don’t compare in between classes. If you do, heck I would compare Wizard and Barbarian then whine why can I do in total of 3000-4000 damage out from the fireball (same level). It’s like all these comparing makes the class to be parallel in terms of everything. For example like a Cleric having a high damage as Barbarian or Wizard having the same tankiness from Swordsman. That sounds pretty dumb actually.

Agree on archer being weak and needs a buff but please don’t compare between classes. Buff them to be what they really are in their potential not to be the same as others. That’s how a difference makes a good game.

Plus, let me know how you build your Barbarian that can tank. And please don’t give me that you enchant your items. I don’t do that cause I want to know the base of the build. Stats, defense and all.

2 Likes
#23

Hmm yeah i can see your point. But the 300~500 dmg is normal, my Scout took the same dmg with a lower hp pool so that got nothing to do with the class i believe. Wizards especially the Cryomancer path seems a tad underwhelming at the moment. As for Archer, i also think that they would need some reworking. Especially classes like Scout and Hunter feel unfinished and weak.

Sure, i can give you some directions for whatever it is worth. First, make sure to level the leather armor skill to at least 20 and then get full leather gear, first and foremost, shoes with high evasion (preferably with green gems slotted).
My Dex right now is at ~170 while my Str sits at around 80 (with Vubbe Fighter Gauntlets & Zachariel Bangle). My stat distribution follows a simple principle, crits do 50% more damage, so my Str has to be high enough that my critical attacks hit for twice the amount of a regular attack (with the TwoHand:critical attribute of course). I have a ~70% crit rate with a high enough dodge rate that maybe 1 in 10 attacks hits me. Its not the best build in the world but it has worked fine for me so far.

Could we please return to the topic about the Overkill mechanic ? I feel we might have derailed the thread a bit here.

2 Likes
#24

It’s funny how you exposed yourself for getting the beta key in a wrong way.

If you are going the right way, you should only get 1 beta key.

3 Likes
#25

Maybe they should add multiple types of exp boosting kill types to promote parties or give boosts to non dps classes.

Support kill, where if a mob dies under support debuffs they get an increase equal to their spr x 1%.

Enraged kill, for tanks where they get an increase of exp equal to their con x 1% on taunted foes.

Likely would have to make these capped at the overkill value. Would be wary of allowing it without a stat requirement otherwise damage classes would take the taunts or debuffs just to get the boost anyway.

Also on the whole defense thing, everyone sucks at magic defense. Even my paladin with 85 spirit and resist elements takes massive damage from magical enemies. Ive seen tanks die in seconds with over 11k hp to cockatrice in the level 90 dungeon.

1 Like
#26

Not quite sure about why is there even a huge discussion about barbs here on this very topic. Yes they can overkill easily, period.

I think this person here sums up pretty well the problem with the overkill system : it doesnt even seem to work as intended.

1 Like
#27

But Fireball has a lower dps than Barbarian (maybe more total damage), and wizard is much less tanky than Barbarian.

If you ever play any other class of wizard you will realize their damage couldn’t even compare to Barbarian at all, while still being squishy.

2 Likes
#28

my bro has a wizard. dude is garbage compared to his barbarian. this the only game i know where wizard isnt hitting the most damage. odd.

#29

that could work.
(20 characters)

#30

I haven’t been overkilling since like 140. That being said, there are mobs I could have gone to and overkilled (Minos in Nurodin Falls), but it’s less overall exp than other places where most classes would have a much better time (especially healers).

The overkill problem seems to be at earlier levels of gameplay, and the mechanic makes it difficult to overkill mobs of a lower level. The higher level map is for the most part elite monsters (there are weak normal monsters, but they are bad to grind on for any class). These can not be overkilled (atleast not very easily, maybe if you had godlike gear all +15 etc)

That being said, a patch was added to the KR version that scaled monster stats to their level, so who knows. Might even be harder to overkill at the earlier levels of gameplay.

Did you know archers can overkill 255% with oblique shot through most trash mobs, and zoom past starving demon way even faster than a barbarian ever can?

1 Like
#31

I haven’t been overkilling since the first few maps as a Wizard. So I kinda forget of the overkill mechanism anyway.

#32

So, the problem seems to be that the overkill system needs to be tuned.

scaled monster stats to whos level? the chars? please dont tell me its that. that would mean if a lvl 200 came back and hit a lvl 50, it would be like the monster is lvl 200 because it somehow out of nowhere got ultra powerful?

#33

Scaled stats to the mobs level. I don’t know 100% what this means for monsters.

#34

whats the difference between mobs and monsters. i thought they were the same thing.

#35

They are, the monsters should have appropriate scaling based on their own stats.

#36

I think that Overkill should stay true to its’ name and not be just about doing a lot of damage, but also about the literal meaning of the word, to exaggerate.

If I cast a level 10 Zaibas on a minion that is 2 autoattack’s health away of being dead, that should count as an overkill. Overkill should be for using skills that would otherwise not be necessary to kill a minion because they’re already low on health.

Of course, implementing something like that may be a bit hard, but I think that it would be an interesting change to how the current system works, allowing plenty of more classes (looking at you, multi-hitters!) to be able to overkill too.

#37

The real problem with overkill isn’t that many class can’t do overkill, but we can’t do overkill on mobs that actually matters.

Seriously, change the exp scaling, reduce the exp penalty, and let us actually can get exp from low level mobs.

#38

@Caedes Thank you. As for now, I don’t see any gap in between your build and mine, focusing on STR and DEX rather than anything else and not feel of slotting anything yet including gems. Will focus that later on cause I feel it’s not time. As stated before, Barbarian is a heavy damage dealer type of class. Plus with the Overkill, like @FatePGN said, I can only feel it around the early levels and later on diminished. Even grinding from 70 to 80 at Worker Rest Area,with few Overkills x2.5 bonus, leveling is still slow as always which took me around an hour or two to get to one level (not using exp cards). Of course that were weaker mobs with low hp that gives 0.01%. Might as well not be there at all. It feels a lot faster when I was in party which can boost me around 5 to 6 levels without any hassle, at the same place.

@Mirarara As far as I can see, fireball do have quite a lot of damage and cleared as fast as a Barbarian would (excluding total damage) in mere seconds. Well, I do feel squishy as a Barbarian myself even with high DEX evasion stuff, had to clear any mobs as fast as I could without taking anymore damage and using pots cause if do, it felt like getting nuked. I prefer not to compare between classes as it only makes matters worst. Every class is different and the only thing that you can say about them is to buff them at their potential, not to be same as others. Like seeing a Cleric having the same damage as Barb just by swinging their staffs around. That sounds kinda dumb really.

#39

The problem is fireball take alot sp. As you know, wizard’s spell actually take so much sp that you can’t be fighting forever.

Also, they usually can’t overkill by using fireball.

It’s not that we want to compare, but it’s impossible not to compare between class in a MMORPG. Unless there are some advantage (that actually matters) by wizard class over barbarian, no one will stop comparing.

So far the only advantage I can predict is that wizard is better in pvp, probably.

Also, Barbarian isn’t really squishy when compared to other class. It’s just the defense value of this game being pointless at later game.

#40

This system is honestly absurd as some classes do not/barely proc any overkill at all, and hence penalised. Direct consequences of this is really having the masses converge to the few classes that actually have greater potential to overkill, and this kills variability.