Tree of Savior Forum

Opinions on a barbarian-dragoon build PvE

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

Hi everyone,

I’m having some doubts about how to proceed with my swordsman build. The plan is something like the following build. Note that I’m currently starting R6 with 5 points already allocated in cyclone + DoV, so R5 and below will be as it’s shown. I know that some aspects of the build, specially swordsman C2 and some skills aren’t optimal, but that’s how it is. Everyone is careless with his first build at the early stages :slight_smile:

That covers R6 and R7. The plan for R8 is keep up with dragoon, maxing “dethrone” and “serpentine”, specially due to the attributes.

The main weapon would be a 2H spear. Taking into account my current main weapon is a 2H sword, I guess that would be my secondary weapon.

Skill rotation for normal enemies would be: helm chopper or seism -> cleave -> dragon soar -> cyclone (dragon soar might be skipped depending on the enemy). That should deal enough damage for high HP mobs.
For bosses, the skill rotation would be: gae bulg -> cleave -> cyclone or pouncing. serpentine and dethrone would be include for R8, something like: gae bulg -> serpentine -> dethrone -> cleave -> cyclone.

So, why would I go this way? I think there are only 2 paths to take with my current build: either go for a “classic” dopple C3 build, or try a different thing with dragoon (or other).The problem I see with the dopple C3 is that dopple C2 doesn’t add anything interesting; you’re locked with 2H sword and without any way out other than preparing for dopple C3, which somehow you’re forced to pick as R8. I have no idea what would come for R9 (if it ever comes), but again, whatever they release for R9 that uses 2H swords, you’re somehow forced to pick it as there isn’t anything “compatible” to pick in the current ranks.

On the other hand, dragoon offers more possibilities from my point of view: you could still go with a spear + shield to tank better (I know, this is not a tank build and it isn’t expected to go as tank, but it’s a possibility in case there is no better tank available). You’re also opened to do pierce damage which should make farming and bossing easier. Gae bulg offers another debuff for R7 which is compatible with cleave (which is something dopple C2 doesn’t have).

I still have time to make some changes, at least until I reach R6 class level 10, when I’ll have to choose if I’ll go with this build (and start picking double pay earn) or not, so what’s your opinion?

#2

really you should just do peltata hoplite 3 doppel dragoon c2 build
its a VERY strong build for aoe, and pve, and bossing stuff.

#3

I’ll do that if I ever create another swordsman for sure. However, I don’t have plans to create it soon.

Whatever change has to be over the current pj. That’s the restriction to solve this “problem” :wink:

#4

The thing to keep in mind is that going barb>doppel or hop>goon works precisely because they’re essentially experts in dealing a specific type of damage. Even if you’re not covering for other damage types, the amount of damage bonuses you get for a specific damage type outweighs being able to deal multiple damage types. You can think of cleave+dov+cyclone as being the dopp equivalent of finestra+lunge+dethrone. The synergy simply works out too well to ignore.

#5

If we analyse the buffs / debuffs for dopple C2-3 and dragoon C1-2 (which is the topic of this post mainly) we have:

  • dopple:
    • C2 -> DoV 5-10
    • C3 -> Zwerchhau (which is a conditional debuff to slash attacks)
  • dragoon:
    • C1 -> Gae Bulg (debuff to physical attacks)
    • C2 -> Serpentine attribute (debuff to physical attacks)

If we go solo maybe dopple could squeeze more damage due to DoV (assuming we pick DoV 8 to 10) but we almost go without physical defense.

On the other hand, dragoon seems more party-like because the debuffs apply to every physical attack, so all party members could take advantage of it.

I think the damage output should be similar, probably a bit more for the dopple, but with the price of going without defense, plus the need to stack all the hits for DoV. So I think, although the maximum damage output would go to the dopple, the average damage output would go to the dragoon, being safer the second one.

We should also take into account the enemy’s armor. If the enemy has a plate armor the dopple won’t deal a lot of damage because almost all of the damage type will be slash. However, dragoon (for this particular case where we have pick barbarian) we should have both pierce and slash damage, so the pierce damage we deal with the dragoon should deal more damage than the one we could deal with the dopple in this case. In addition, the debuff from Zwerchhau won’t be applied here, so we would do even less damage.

So far, I’m still with the mix barbarian <-> dragoon instead of going to dopple C3

#6

S3 Barb 3 Dragoon.
There’s a lot of fun in playing a joke build with restrain 10 and pouncing along with multi hit attacks

#7

I’ve been checking other threads about dopple C3 with DoV 15 and cyclone 15, which I don’t think it’s a bad option. The problem I see is that you’ll need a first tier weapon with all the bonus available (probably an orange +10-15 weapon and a pretty good transcendence) in order to maximize the damage buff for the DoV and kill the enemy extremely fast.

You’ll probably be killed with 4-5 hits taking into account that your defense will be 0. The good point is that you probably won’t need to invest in a good armor, just for the buffs you could get for it :sweat_smile:

I don’t think this is a route for “normal” players who can’t opt to the best equipment set available.

I guess this build is more support-like with the dragoon’s debuffs

#8

With the pending buffs to cata, I can’t think of 1 reason why you’d go barb instead of cata. Though to be fair, little is known about that new attribute from barb yet.

#9

It’s not like I’d go barbarian, it’s I’ve already go barbarian. That’s how it is, so it’s a matter of keep going to dopple C3 or switch to dragoon.

#10

Didn’t stop popular builds for Fencers coming from HL3s and Barb3 :wink:

Now consider your current Barb’s tool kit that buffs your later ranks:
-Cleave: slash debuff(5sec), +50crit buff(5sec) 3 overheat
-WarCry&Frenzy: PA buffs
Compared to Hop’s that are common found in Dragoon builds.
-Finestra: +150crit(170 with Zega), +30%block -39eva(*2 with Splash att.) 75sec buff
-SpearLunge: pierce debuff
Quite underwhelming yes? unless you’re fine with it, going Dragoon will only make you character subpar compared to the cookiecutters.
So yeah better off rolling that onwards as a Dopp.

tbqh a Highlander1 would’ve been a better choice for a Dopp setup for the 2hand crit damage mastery and other 2hand sword tool skill it can offer compared to Swordie C2 wich only offers Restrain and more PB uptime.

#11

Unless you’re willing to card to max level, S3 Barb 3 will be your best hope into Dragoon 2 as you’ll have maxed key support and powerful attacks that would keep you alive. You won’t need highlander in your build because once you’re dragoon, you’re going spear all the way.

#12

Sword 3, Barb 3, Drag 3 m8. Restrain, Pouncing, and Dethrone will carry you. :joy::joy::joy:

#13

What about the money cost of going to dopple C3? (linking to my previous comment)

As an average player, I can’t afford to pay millions to have the best weapon in the game. I’m afraid that going dopple C3 (with DoV 15) having an average weapon won’t be successful due to lack of damage.

#14

So you’ve decided to go Dopp3 huh :grinning:

It’s not as efficient/fast as the Scout farmers but, by the time you’ve hit rank7 you can likely do solo 130 or 145 dungeons for an average of 200+k-ish per run=600+k-ish a day with 3 runs.
130dg Harpiea cube can also give low chance Petamion recipe to gear yourself(later upgrade it to Max Petamion) of sell for easy cash.

Just keep doing your quests, they also provide a heft amount.
If saving money, bonfires are way dead cheaper than any alchemist pots while playing solo.

Go high on weeds, er… I mean


^that, poisons you making DOV stacking easier w/o taking hits from mobs to stack.

Originally Dopps opt to go high Str instead due to DOV scaling with Str increased PA.
But power spike of rank8 and ‘gem/transcend’ update put Str build into a pitiful state cos’ said 2 updates makes PAtk gain easier than putting points into Str.
Making Dex builds more favorable now for physical damage builds due to the Crit(damage) and Evasion(survival) they provide, while getting Con is a hit(larger hp pool damage buffer) and miss for Dopp since they’d still drop their def to 0 anyway.

#15

I’m still undecided… I wouldn’t mind to go for a dopple C3 with dex build and mushrooms, I really think this is a good idea, but the problem is that farming the mushrooms seems a pain (around 3% of a non-so-common mob), maybe 5 / day?. No mushrooms, no party.

Btw, my stats are currently str 175, con 110, dex 45. I plan to increase the con stat to match more or less the str.

I have a stat reset potion (less than 6 days to use it) so I could change the stats to a more dex build for the dopple C3, but I’m still undecided.

#16

Honestly, just go straight for Dragoon C2. As great as Doppel C3 is, the debuffs are merely a continuation of debuffs from Barb, and on top of it, you don’t have the Highlander tree, which would help boost your 2H crit attack. Currently, you have weapon freedom and while dragoon would lock you into spear, there are a lot of benefits you can apply to a party with skills like Serpentine, yet manage your own with Dethrone. With the multi-hit attacks of Dragoon, it’s sure to do well with restrain from S3.