Why should he be held responsible for saying he hates someone?
@rhedewayhke
Why wouldnât he be?
Whenever you do anything, you ought to be accountable for your actions.
Even if I just picked up a cup, I am responsible for picking up that cup.
Unless you are willing to have your words carry no worth, you are always responsible for what you say.
So the public figure shared his opinion of hatred, which influenced the actions of others to commit grievous crimes.
The figures words indirectly influenced the death of many, so by your logic, the figure should be held responsible.
Didnât I just clarify this?
Sorry if you still misunderstood.
It means that for his words and his words alone, he is accountable.
Everything else is left up to oneâs imagination, since what remains questionable is intent, not action.
So basically no one should be held responsible for their words since words only have the impact that others perceive but how one acts on the words of others is entirely their own responsibility, not the responsibility of the one who said those words.
If I havenât made it clear enough, Iâll try once more.
No, you are held responsible for what you say. For the words themselves.
The rest of that is left to opinion because it concerns the intent of the words and perception.
I donât care very much for that part.
The most morally âgoodâ person in the world can spend their entire life being rude. I would call him rude.
Their reason is theirs and you can debate it if you want, I care not.
What one can always be held responsible for is their actions.
If itâs still not clear.
In your scenario, the guy who spouted hate, I will call a hate-spreading (insert insulting title here).
I will not, however, call him a murderer.
If a tyrant commands others to kill, then that tyrant is labelled appropriately one who commands the killers.
Is he any better? Thatâs up to you. Whether you think intent is important or whatever.
But thereâs no reason to hold someone responsible for what they say.
There is. Quite a lot. Though the most common one is in manners.
If I were to say something scathing, rude⌠I am held accountable for what I said. I was being rude.
If I break a rule/law that prohibits something I said, I am held accountable for having said that.
If I were to lie, I am held accountable for that lie
Iâll leave the rest to your imagination, these three cover quite a lot of ground as they are.
If I were to call someone stupid based on their actions and or words in an apathetic way, how am I responsible for how someone reacts towards what I said?
Laws are irrelevant as an example since not all laws are the same everywhere.
To lie is an act of false words, it is an act, not words to be held accountable.
You are not responsible for how they reacted.
I donât remember ever saying that.
Accountable for being rude, thatâs certain.
Calling someone stupid, no matter how warranted you may think it, is considered rude by most.
(if you donât consider it insulting, do remember to apologize for using a commonly insulting word when someone claims that it is offensive)
You might be being a bit sensitive here, Iâve not used any names or given any implication.
If you think you yourself have been rude and that I am calling you out on it, worry not.
I am not. I donât particularly bother with trying to tell people who are one thing to consider another.
Like asking a lazy person to do the chores he should on time, itâs often a waste of time for me.
Irrelevant? Not at all. Different by standards.
Applicable where they are. It very much does depend on situation.
On these forums, for example, there are rules against aggression and insulting others.
https://forum.treeofsavior.com/t/tree-of-savior-forum-guidelines/
https://treeofsavior.com/ts/ <- Yeah, I know itâs for the game. I hope no one actually thinks this is some good excuse of a loophole.
Edit : Generally, thereâs also common manners.
Within a community, there are often repercussions for vulgarity and rudeness.
That is one form in which speech is held accountable. (unspoken rules. like not insulting your employer, etc)
Whatever you say, you can be called out on it.
That⌠doesnât actually mean anything.
To speak is an act of true words, then?
Isnât it because it is a known action that you are accountable for it? (Acting or not is the irrelevant part)
Which leads back to the first point I made, you are accountable for your actions.
Calling someone stupid is seen as rude by others and the one calling the person stupid should be held responsible for being rude, but to be considered rude would mean that people were affected by what was said, so in order to be accountable for being rude, the person is also accountable for how people reacted towards their words.
It makes no sense to hold someone responsible for saying something that others brand as something else, one thing could be seen as insightful by some people, hurtful by another, rude by few.
âI ate bacon today.â Some vegans would throw a huge fit about this, most people would cheer for bacon, according to you, the person who said that should apologize to vegans for offending them.
Laws are irrelevant in this situation.
Whatever I say can be blown out of proportion, which it usually is.
To speak is an act of words, to speak the truth is the act of speaking the truth.
To lie is the act, the words which formed the lie is evidence to said lie, you can be held accountable for your actions, not your words.
Iâm starting to get annoyed be how slow you are at this. xD
If you still donât get it after this, I apologize, but I will just label it as a meaningless effort on my part.
You are accountable, period.
Whether you were being rude or not, sure, thatâs up to opinion.
I could easily have called it blunt rather than rude.
There would be a difference and both would be true.
One less flattering than the other.
Whatever sense it does not make to you, it is still very much how the world works.
Whenever you act, you talk, anything that is a recognized and known action⌠those are judged and can be returned as a form of communication by whomsoever has the ability to do so.
Itâs almost literally the way communication works.
You say something and people get to place judgement upon the value of your words.
Where did I say/imply that?
What you do is up to you.
I only recall reminding and suggesting that you apologize if you used a commonly insulting word and someone is offended by it. Do what you will. Just to note, you are being fairly stupid, if that the case.
No offence intended, of course.
(this is an example, do you see the point, yet⌠or is this still too difficult?)
Itâs the words themselves that matter.
If you said the words âYou are stupidâ, those are the exact words you are accountable for.
Whether people think itâs honest, blunt, rude, wrong or whatever else is irrelevant.
All are as true as they believe, but itâs your words that you are not an excuse.
It is no longer law which defines opinion, itâs common standards, more often than not.
The law is little more than a set of rules set by people for people.
Standards, rules, guidelines and common etiquette is no different in that regard.
Speaking words is an action, man.
That shouldâve been obvious from the start.
Definition of action, to help with this.
It is actually part of the definition.
Your very words are spoken through action because speech is an action in of itself.
I donât enjoy having to argue something for the sake of arguing, which I assume you are doing.
If you are not, Iâll drop it here unless you come up with a better argument.
In the case you do enjoy this discussion, please put a little more thought into it.
I havenât much else to add. All I can say is you might need to consult a professional on the topic of common etiquette and communication, because I canât explain it too much better than this right now.
So in other words, I canât be held responsible for anything I say.
I might be to blame for making it so long, I thought you needed more help understanding.
Should have considered you might not be able to comprehend it if I tried to explain it too much.
You are responsible for what you say.
Does that help?
It doesnât matter how people perceive it, thatâs left to opinion.
You are accountable for anything that is known to be an action of your own volition.
So literally no reason to be held account for what I say, alright got it.
Why not? I thought I was here to clarify that you are accountable for what you said.
Well, if you disagree, thatâs fine but I think you phrased it wrongly.
The phrase â-alright, got itâ means to imply that you agreed and understood.
If you did not agree but understood, you might/should have said âAlright, no thanks.â or something.
@rhedewayhke Itâs so petty of you ask so many questions just to make a point. Have some grace and get to the point will you? What a snob you are.
Woah woah woah, whatâs with all the hostility bro? Just asking questions, no need to get all huffy.
Iâm so confused now on @rhedewayhkeâs logic. @LaScoot I seriously applaud you for answering these questions because I think by now, I would have just stopped replying completely considering at this point, no actual reasoning is being placed and instead as far as I can see, only stuff like âI canât be held accountable for anythingâ is being said atm o.o
http://www.tofugu.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/kill-me-baby-anime-question-mark-confused.jpg
Well isnât this what you were doing previously? Iâm just curious as to why you would need to ask why there is hostility when it was just a statement and opinion that @ImLazyxD placed on the forum and shouldnât really need any reason to have this response.
Following your reasoning, they shouldnât be held accountable for what they said and thus no need for âWoah woah woahâ as a response.
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Heâs probably just a little annoyed from reading your stuff.
I have to admit, a lot of what you post are fallacies or look a lot like attempts at antagonizing others.
It can be really frustrating for read to many people.
Like, the last reply you gave me just looked like it was intended to provoke through sarcasm.
To be fair, some of your words are clearly antagonizing with no other noticeable purpose but to annoy.
(more particularly when you try to tell people when you slander opinions or throw names at the end of your replies, less noticeable in this thread but still somewhat present)
My self-respect is a bit on the egoistical side, so Iâll just assume you still donât understand me.