Tree of Savior Forum

No idea of how to build a swordman

Class and Rank Swordsman
#21

Have you played Hoplite c1 with Cata, or Sword c2? I have played both, and I can tell you two things:

  1. Stabbing stays useful forever, even at skill level 5 ( it would be a good investment even at skill lvl 1 due to the quick multihit ). Finestra 5 may not have 100% uptime, but it’s only down for 5 seconds. It also gives 3 AoE ratio, which is incredibly useful ( and +10% block ).

  2. Restrain lvl 5 from sword c2 is absolute garbage, and you will almost never get a stun proc off of it. I can’t see any reason to take swordsman c2 in any build, if you’re not going c3.

Have you ever actually tried to use cross guard block, and then capitalize on the debuff afterwards? It’s a combo no one actually uses, because it’s so hard to actually use. If you block or dodge the attack, the “parry” effect doesn’t go off, there’s no reliable way to get it to happen without spending so much time you waste your potential DPS.

Also if you use crosscut on a Cata, you dismount. Then your pet can run off and attack something random, leaving you to have to go chase it down to remount later. It’s not very fun. High2 Cata just doesn’t have that great synergy. You’re really going 2 ranks in Highlander just to spam skyliner while mounted. If this build was the be-all only non-worthless Cata3 build, I assure you you’d see a lot of people using it in kToS. There’s a reason you don’t see it that often though ( and several people did try it, but gave up on it ).

You talk like you’ve researched things on paper but I really doubt you’ve thoroughly played the classes that you’re pushing on other people.

#22

Yes, I did.

  1. Not really, there are far better skills on Hoplite tree, like Spear Throw. It may be multihit, but the damage falls off, at least for me. 10% Block is nothing on high level content. Level 5 Finestra is useless not only because of the Uptime, but because of small bonuses it provides.

  2. You get it for PvP, as I said. That’s it.

I used it in my proto High - Hoplite - DRG build. It works absolutely fine, Weapon Swap is the thing. It’s also my secong Pierce vulnerability skill on top of a good block.

I know that you dismount. I used it when using 2H Swords in which case, it works wonders.

I wouldn’t push them on other people without knowledge, you know.

#23

I doubt you played these to high level, or you wouldn’t be saying these things.

Stabbing never falls off. It doesn’t fall off for anyone.

If Finestra was a buff that only gave AoE ratio +3 and nothing else, it would still be a worthwhile buff to get. 5 seconds of downtime is not a real issue.

You don’t get restrain 5 for PvP, because the stun will never proc, and the ability to block in PvP from Peltasta is far more useful. If you actually played a swordsman c2 and used restrain, you would know what the real proc chance is like. This shows that you haven’t.

If you think holding down crossguard and waiting for an enemy to actually get affected with the debuff and then swapping to use a pierce move works well, you definitely aren’t aiming for viable DPS. Especially if you advocate against getting hoplite 1 for stabbing, since that’s the best move to use with the combo.

I also forgot to mention that the evasion attribute from stabbing is akin to a Rogue’s evasion buff, and is amazing for tanky characters to deal DPS after taunting.

#24

Stabbing in the long run is worse than Pierce, but then you get ST on HopC3 and you completely ignore it. In your case, this is the ONLY valuable damage move on C1 Hop, which doesn’t even evolve.
As I said, it’s bonuses are too low. Not worth it at all, better to upgrade it to at least level 10 on C2 Hoplite.

One more time. You get Sword 2 for PURE PvP. I never said it’s useful, just that it’s an actual option.

When this is my only defence skill? Yes, I will gladly take it. And again, this is my SECOND skill with Pierce vulnerability on my DRG build. For Cata you don’t even need it that much, but still it’s nice to have, since yeah, it’s still the only defence skill. Which gives more block than Peltasta, by the way. And no, all Dragoon skills are better used with vulnerability.

Evasion from Stabbing is temporary, you still can’t dodge Magic.

#25

Stabbing is worse than Pierce in the long run? Care to back this up with anything?

If swordsman c2 isn’t useful, then it’s not an actual option. What logic is this?

What does evading magic have anything to do with comparing peltasta/hoplite vs highlander c2.

Now you’re just saying things. I’m not sure if there’s a real conversation to be had here.

#26

Yes it is. Pierce offers more damage, more burst and 4 hits on bosses with Bleed effect.

The logic is you take Sword2 to back up Cata’s PvP abilities. For the last time, I said it was simply an option, not that its useful, Jesus. People can choose what they like, you know?

It means that this tanky capability of your HopC1 is not so great as you think in the late game, that’s all.

#27

Saying “yes it is” isn’t backing it up with anything. Ask anyone, Pierce is absolutely not better than Stabbing. You wouldn’t even mention the bleed attribute on Pierce if you had actually used it extensively, as it’s so rare to actually occur. I’m fairly sure the attribute is bugged, and the percent chance doesn’t increase with the level of the attribute ( leaving the proc chance at 2%, instead of ideally being 10% ).

We shouldn’t talk about things that “aren’t so great as you think in late game” since clearly only one of us has actually played a Hoplite to late game. Stabbing evasion is still really great against knockdown spamming bosses and groups of mobs that do physical damage.

I’m only here in the hopes that I can stop the spread of misinformation to people who are trying to make viable swordsman builds. I think at this point anyone reading can pick up on the real information.

#28

Good job ignoring everything else I said after this. Better burst, better damage, 4 hits on bosses. If you are so sure, give proofs then.

Any skill which has multihit + Pain Barrier is great against knockback bosses, i.e. literally every Dragoon skill, except Gae. Also, once again, Evasion won’t help you against magic bosses. You promote Stabbing, like it’s the best hotcake ever. It isn’t.

Yeah, I hope so too, since picking Hoplite only on Circle 1 isn’t worth a damn for what it provides.

#29

Pierce isn’t even multihit, it’s a % based buff and the damage only shows up as multiple hits.

I don’t think anything we’re discussing now is going to help the OP or the topic, so I’m going to stop here.

#30

I actually think thatstabbing is better than perce, you can deal more damage by freely spamming atacks temporaly than just 4 hits and parying for a bleed.

#31

It still has better damage and burst overall. But anyway… you wouldn’t take Pierce without Stabbing, right? So this was a bit pointless from me, sorry.

Yeah, let’s stop.

@erickmuinos

On C1 Hoplite you take both anyway.

#32

Thanks for your advice guys, I will keep all this in mind once I talk with my friend. I think you all have valid reasons and points of view, still I will give him your ideas and let him decide what he feels is better for his game style. You really save me this time :slight_smile:

#33

I actually went for stabbing, finnestra and synchro thrusting…
but yeah you can get both, it all depends on how you hant to play, I personally think that onehanded spear-shield dragoon is pretty awesome but its ones own preference.

#34

How much hit rate % do we have with 0 point in DEX against archers?
I read somewhere that we need at least 150 DEX to hit archers. So I think it’s a lot of points invested just to be able to hit archers.

#35

believe me, dex based swordsman are weaker and herd to play on the beggining… But they become monsters in mid-late game, they start to spam criticals and deal some didiculous damage,tankers dont care much about normal attacks, but a good dex build cand deal skill like damage on regular attacks because of the high crit

#36

I am currently bent between dragoon or fencer, any thoughts on which to pick?

#37

depends on what youre going for, mainly what you want to pick ion earlier ranks.
Personaly I preffer fencer because its stylish, agile and can spam skills at little cost and no cooldown

#38

I was mainly thinking about doing a damage build, wasn’t sure how the dragoon or fencer played though, so other than a damage dealer with a decent chunk of life, I cant say much.

#39

I think the crit rate scales with level so full DEX only shines at early game because at late game crit rate fall off not to mention magic damage can’t be dodge, also STR scales with rank while DEX doesn’t

#40

it depends, everything has a “crit resistance” thats why the crit appear as a number not a percentage, higer levels mean higher resistance.
At the same time if you keeep investing in dex enough you keep doind the sae ammount (theres a almost umperceptible increase) number of crits, the main problem isnt that you cant deal crits at high levels if you invest in dex, ots that if you dont invest in dex youll become unnable to crit.
Thats a really stupid mechanic.
About the dodge, I wasnt thinking about it I was talking about a full dps build, also only mages and some priests do magical damage, swordsman and archer skills arent magic based.