Tree of Savior Forum

Nice silent patch

General Discussion
#143

To me TOS has a bigger share of unreasonable white knights than any other online game i came across. People here actually defending the lack of patch notes.

It’s not a big problem if players have some sort of method to change builds regularly to adapt to constant class changes, but they don’t and rank resets are event only. How nice of them to drop this ninja patch right after the event ends without any sort of announcement. Bravo

To those who say you should watch ktos patch notes: ■■■■ off, this is ITOS and nothing else, other people got a life to live instead of camping the forums 24/7

9 Likes
#144

Hmm… but it’s also well known that 95% of korean patch notes (in every fkn game) will be released too in the “international version”. So yeah, it just common sense to read and be warned from korean patch notes. I don’t saying you should read tho, everyone has their own way to get info either way or another and idc to be honest but again, it’s common sense that if you are playing a korean game that got its international version to read their patch note.

I agree with you that they should have release the patch notes of this nerfs instead just going ninja patch, but again if people could read or at least give 5 minutes to every kr patch notes, all this crying and struggling will be less.

It’s just an opinion tho, i don’t care about ninja patch since i’m used to it in other games (mobile mmorpg to be honest) but i can’t compare a mobile game with pc game anyway.

#145

That doesn’t justify the lack of communication from the development team. They should not be ninja patching people. Stop white knighting their mistakes.

11 Likes
#146

I’m not, I already said it’s bad that they shouldn’t have release the patch notes of this nerfs and going ninja patch, learn to read and learn some comprehensive reading please.

I also said i’m used to it, that doesn’t mean any of you should. and I also said it’s just an opinion.

#147

This much /20characters

#148

Arguing about Ktos general thread for us to learn about these “silent patch notes” wouldn’t really suffice as a substitute.

We can’t check the forums at all time, some might visit the forums to post topics but they never took the chance to glance at Ktos general thread. It is intended for people WHO ARE INTERESTED ON WHAT’S HAPPENING ON KTOS, BY ALL MEANS IT’S NOT A MANDATORY THREAD FOR YOU TO KNOW ABOUT; ESPECIALLY CONCERNING PATCHES, FIXES AND CHANGES.

By going through others’ arguments, why not link Ktos general thread in patch notes “welp, we did change things but just browse around the thread to find out what’s going to change.” Why is it that hard for iTos team just to clarify things and put every damn thing on the patch notes?

3 Likes
#150

Not to be rude, but welcome to eastern MMO, @Valwyn

I think people who are defending this is because they are used to this. This isn’t anything new, it happens on every eastern MMO including FF14. Only Ragnarok players remember how bad it was with Gravity.

I really don’t blame the company anymore because I know what they are struggling with starting a franchise in the west. The main problem is localization and translation.

Let me tell you that all the patch notes and localization are done in the east by the developer and then sent to the franchise. There is not enough translator in the west to compensate this.

English is a mandatory course in China, Japan, and South Korea. Kids are going to cramp school every night just so they can learn it. Meanwhile, most wouldn’t bother with a translator job because of the low pay.

Of course, in the west, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean are not taught. Perhaps only in major cities that a few would be interested in it. (Such as the Confucius Academy). Yet, Chinese, Japanese and Korean is a much harder language to learn that it takes more effort if it is not your first language.

Anyways, this is already a trend. And even recently SquareEnix (I consider them the pioneer of eastern localization, even though they are still very, and I mean VERY bad at it.) started to broadcast their feeds in English. I mean look at what the other companies are doing. How long did it take Blade & Soul to be translated? Tera and Black Desert has the same problem.

Now look at us on this forum. Out of 6000+ players, there is only a few (technically 1 person) that is translating kTOS info for us. The rest of us are using google translate. Do you see what the main problem is now?

It isn’t professionalism, it is lack of human resource. And from the look of how the east is developing faster than the west, it is going to get a lot worse in the future.

3 Likes
#151

i don’t even speak english i take my time reading when i try to speak english with these guys in SA they don’t usually understand what i am talking about, i still need to translate some words in english, i am hispanic, i am trying to is that i need to take my time to understand everything, sometimes i am really i want to see the whole english patch notes in ktos2.0 but i take my time, my builds are resets still so i am fine.

IMC is an indie company and i understand the problem with korean language the translation but if you had problems with the patch notes you can always come to the forums to announce about it before to make the patch alive.

even if you are poor or you don’t have enough people or the person in charge was sick or something you can always speak with the community, people won’t murder them for that or something, the point to speak with community that is that is the only way to keep them happy enough, “guys we didn’t have enough time to make the patch notes but these are the change for tomorrow”. linking the paste bin in the news section, that is all.

1 Like
#152

Square Enix shut down FFXIV for 1 year (to work on RR) and publicly apologized for their mistakes.
Tera has never published a patch without notes and the notes are released way before the maintenance.
Can’t speak about black desert, since I didn’t play it.

You can’t compare an amateurish company like IMC to the ones you mentioned, you can fool only those that didn’t play the other games.

And yes, IMC is unprofessional.

1 Like
#153

Well, those impacted should chase IMC staffs and request for compensation and justice answer for it, you don’t have to drag others into your whiteknights labelling.
This is a right thing to do, we always support right thing.
IMC must announce the change in their patch note.

But for most of us, who foresee the issue or even warned some of our friends and guilds, we just don’t feel necessary to make a big fuss about it.

#154

Well, I was talking about ARR for FF14. I am not even going to go into the disaster before that. Maybe you forgot about the Turn 9 fiasco ARR had on their patch notes. What about the housing patch notes that didn’t explain anything to the players and left the entire community bitter without any apologies? Oh and Tera, let’s not forget the whole drama with the loyalty system and the golden wolf debacle.

But look, I am not defending IMC. They have their problem. Everyone does. I am only pointing out where the main problem is. And you are right, it is communication. However, how can their western branch communicate with their player base when there is a lost in translation between them and their headquarter?

You ask for an apology. If they apologize every time, wouldn’t it get old? Is an apology going to fix the root of the problem? Nope.

1 Like
#155

an apology won’t fix anything but it can keep the community calm to understand their problems, and action to fix their problems could fix everything, like rank reset voucher, they gave ktos a voucher i am not wrong i need to confirm this.

5 Likes
#156

But you should, because what we had is like (like, not equal to) the transition from FFXIV to RR. It’s not only about some errors in patch notes or housing costs.

They froze the game for 1 year to release a proper patch and everyone was happy with the result, you can’t deny that.

IMC released an unfinished patch, with bugged skills (some still bugged), on live servers, promised to publish the list of skills changed and then waited for the reset event to end to push another patch with changes known only to people reading the forums, thanks to that single person that is kind enough to do the translation for us.

I’ven’t been affected directly, but that’s beyond reasonable.

Meanwhile, people have been affected with rank reset bugs, runs have been lost due to old good desync and/or loading screen bug that’s been there since forever, channels were crashing multiple times per day.

This didn’t happen on Tera EU, blame the publisher (EnMasse) for that?

If a single person is able to translate ktos patch notes, the problem is the lack of professionality of IMC.

I’m not asking for an apology, even if it would be due. I’m only pointing out what other companies did when they botched something.
No one is perfect, everyone can do mistakes. It’s how these mistakes are handled that makes the difference.

3 Likes
#157

IMC announces a combat update by the summer.
IMC releases it 1-2 months before.
The release is full of bugs.
They close the reset event, changing classes in the same patch.

IMC doesn’t need patch notes, IMC needs a project manager capable of devising a strategy because atm it seems they are following a drunk monkey.

9 Likes
#158

No they are 30% owned by Nexon

1 Like
#159

The reason it’s more tolerable from other companies than it is from IMC is because since the inception of this game, it’s been one issue after another and no end in sight for the instability. Even so, that doesn’t excuse IMC’s lack of communication and clarity on iTOS because of the fact that it’s suffering so much on our end.

For an example, we’ve still been plagued by VGA errors. There’s still an ungodly amount of lag within the game. Not short of a few hours from the reset event ending, they’ve now found a way to make it more difficult for those deciding on their classes to remain their classes without the backup of a reset event. There is an underwhelming amount of conversation from the developers to the players; the internet has brought us closer together. I recall when the game was first in development they spent ample time speaking to us and relaying information. Alluvasudden they’re too busy?

Then people on the forums will claim players are entitled. You’re absolutely right. Any person who has spent time on this game, who has spent money on this game, is absolutely entitled.

How sobering that I… we, should log into the game every day in which we spend a few moments, hours, our hard earned money, our valuable time – some more than other – and consumers on the forums try to validate the actions of this company. That people should continuously forgive the company for their inept execution or mere dismissal of the community.

Free to play? Hah.

Nothing in this world is free. Nor is this game. If you’re not paying actual cash from your pocket to play this game, you’re contributing to the revenue by being a part of the traffic.

Much like ad revenue when watching Twitch streams or Youtube videos.

Companies (Steam, Nexon) pay for people to “view” and “play” this game. You’re a form of currency from the moment you visit the page.

For people that want to brush it under the rug by stating that “no one is perfect” and that “everyone makes mistakes” seem to have some really short memory when it comes to the details of this game.

This game is not perfect. It’s not even a good game.

Hell, we can’t even have a designer assed with proper boss mechanics but instead implements an ungodly amount of knock-back and insufferable AOE in what is allegedly the most “difficult” content that is completely conquored by two/three supports and trans 6-7 (solmiki).

Furthermore, we all know that PvP shouldn’t be balanced based on PvE and vice versa, yet, somehow the developers of this game manage to do just that.

It’s not that we ask too much of the company but that the company doesn’t want to provide the bare minimum.

Just some food for thought.

Then they come and add some salt to the wound by ninja patching after the reset event. Hilarious.

And not a god damn peep from any of the management.

IMC’d again!

Edit: The hilarity will be when community managers appear to qualm the flame with their “we’re investigating it”.

Or how GM’s from other games have the authority and ability to act based on the interest of players to resolve issues but GM’s in our game can’t even so much as summon items deleted by the server due to issues on the servers end. The developers can’t even provide competent GM’s. -shrugs-

Just things I’ve noticed.

Edit 2: If it’s not a good game, why do we stick around? Maybe because we’re idiots. A buncha idiots who want this game to succeed.

14 Likes
#160

Barrier scrolls are still useful because of the high magic defence boost which allows you to skip Cloth armor and still have a decent amount of magic defence(also > than equipping 8+ Nuaele cards if you could equip something better instead).

#161

One thing I’d like to add to discussion though on some of the main “complaints”:

  1. Falconer C3: “Oh, my Archer 1, rank 1, skill at Lv.1 0% attributes now kills any group of monsters inside Circling, great class!”
  2. Sadhu C3: “Oh, this skill that requires me to jump in a strangely good timed way to get a buff to myself and it was nerfed.” - Where do even we learnt that we needed to jump to get the buff?

Sure. There was a ninja patch and it’s wrong from IMC part.

But, please. Sometimes there’s a clear difference on what is a bug and what is intended. If you’re doing something weird to have some weird scaling with weirdly low investment there’s most likely something wrong.

It’s all fine if you want to blame someone else for their errors but when both sides are wrong it’s no use to try to put all the blame on the other. Just don’t rely your class choices on a buggy behavior and you’re fine. You know, most people who have reset into these classes didn’t find the bug they relied on by themselves, they most likely had read or watched it in the same media people discussed about it being a bug.

9 Likes
#162

I can’t stress this here enough. Building a class around a bug is asking for disappointment.

I was talking to people watching my stream the other night in which we finished Solmiki and they often commented about my lack of Oblique Shot and I mentioned how I believed the skill to be bugged.

Circling was NOT nerfed. It is functioning how it was before if you’ve got the Level 15 Circling Attribute. If you do not, then sure, it’s gonna cost ya a bit. Oblique Shot’s interaction with circling needed to be fixed and it was.

I still hit 20+ targets with the proper conditions.

3 Likes
#163

My only complain will be the lack of change details of class skills and cooldowns. Like the musketeer skill changes, pole of agony changes and pyromancer’s cooldown timings. All these should be reflected just like the previous patch notes. For this I would very much appreciate that IMC can beef up the patch notes to include the major changes to class skills.

Imo, the new balance arrived at a really bad timing, just right after the reset event ends. Some/Many of us did model our builds according to how we play and feel about the builds during the event, only to return with varying degrees of surprise/shock when the maintenance ends.

Some hidden changes are for the better, like blessing affects all lines of damage. Others are tweaked down, like Transmit Prana’s bonus elemental damage is no longer affecting auto attacks and melee type physical skills such as Dievdirby’s Carve. While hidden mechanics like the mentioned aren’t usually found in patch notes, for this time round it will be really great to put them in, especially at this period of time many of us are particularly sensitive to every single ups and downs of our class choices.

Find it hard to imagine the feelings of those of us who chose Sadhu c3 just to boost auto attacks then returned seeing it doesn’t buff AA anymore. Don’t even think that is a bug in the first place. RIP C1>Priest3>Sadhu3>Chaplain builds.:cry:

For the bug fix to Circling:Expand and Transmit Prana, it is a good fix though. Those are bugs and shouldn’t even be considered to be a reason to choose the class/build in the first place.

@STAFF_Letitia
Although it is a day late, it will be really great to just quickly update and add in the patch notes, so most of us who aren’t well read into ktos/forum updates, have some place as reference to see what has changed.

3 Likes