Tree of Savior Forum

New Cleric Rebalance/QOL Changes in Ktos

Class and Rank Cleric
#42

So your argument is you didn’t pick up on the implied idea that AAABBBCC is the best combination (as it is compared to AAAAAAAA being the best combination now) for the new system that someone will eventually math out (someone always does) and instead opt to “play your way” since you are not into min maxing anyway.

In THAT regard (you don’t really actually care if your card choices are good or bad) the current system isn’t linear or boring since you can chose what ever card you fancy given your build.

The problem with cards you fail to grasp is that some cards are strictly (and very obviously) better than others. The devs themselves already stated this so I can’t believe you still can’t see it. The new system simply changes the word “card” to “combination of cards” resulting in this “new” (not really) problem being

Same problem, different skin, nothing solved.

1 Like
#43

it is boring because

  1. we only have 8 slots
  2. we can stack 8 of the same cards, ignoring other cards for the supposed meta builds.

i completely undertand what the devs are saying, you clearly don’t… the new system will make the weaker cards more available for use because we can’t slot in more than 3 of the same strong cards…

#44

How is 8 any less/more boring than 9 or 10? Oh wait, it’s not. So 8 is just your preference for “boring” and is not “actually boring”.

By your own statement, you can choose what ever cards you want. You simply imposed a personal restriction.

By saying you can chose what ever cards you want after AAA means you ignore the very next best card after A. And yet for some reason you cant chose any other card other than A for the 1st 3… So for the 1st 3 cards you chose the best card but after you throw that standard away. What was it called … having different standards for different cases.

  1. That just makes us choose the 3 best cards instead of 1 best card. That means anything below top 3 is still going to be used as … used storage.
  2. Show me proof that the “weaker cards” become more available. Let’s say shadow galer since he is one of the prime food cards used to lv up the top tier cards right now. Better yet show me all the cards in the new system so we can judge for ourselves with actual data that we no longer have “useless cards”.
1 Like
#45

again i understand what the devs are saying… you clearly failed at that…

quote from the dev blog:

From the current boss card system, in which you can equip a maximum of 8 cards (at Rank 8), we want to change to one where players can equip as much as 12 cards distributed over 4 types (3 cards for each type), regardless of Rank.

In the current system, if you have one or two cards with significantly high performance, those cards end up being the only ones equipped while the rest becomes simple fodder for EXP. With the new system, you can choose to equip different cards of all types according to the characteristics of your character.

1 Like
#46

All that says is “this is want we want to do” and you just straight up believed it. So let’s break it up.

What they wan’t can be very different from what we get. Just look at their history.

How is 12 cards different (better) from 8 or 9 or 10 or 11 (you get the idea).

Saying something without saying anything. In case you don’t understand this either, this means IMC gave us something so vague, they may as well have not said it at all.

It doesn’t even address the issue of card stacking because we are still allowed to stack cards. It does nothing to address “best combination”.

Here they acknowledge how only the best cards will ever actually get any use. They show nothing that actually addresses this.

You can literally do that NOW. Anyone (now) is able to choose up to 8 different cards to use according to the characteristics of your character. The only difference being cards will be getting types that are not explained in detail.

This is the only thing that has any hint of “better” because this implies we get all card slots available instead of +1 card slot per rank. But given how badly they translate to english, it could mean something else entirely.

NOTHING there (other than max card slots at any rank which is pretty moot anyway given how access to all card slots now is very easy) makes the new system better. The only certainty is it becomes more “complex” with more cards (12 from 8) and more variables (card types) but if you understand the idea of complexity, “more complex” doesn’t automatically equate to “better”.

1 Like
#47

case in point, you really didn’t understand what the devs are saying…
you’re just grasping at straws now attacking a dev blog quote…

1 Like
#48

Any new information on those 2H-Maces?

#49

Alright, ignoring everything thus far, give me the line in the dev blog quote that makes the new system better than the current one.

1 Like
#50

/
i would say that this depends of what “better” means to you! at least for me and i believe a few others; the new system would be BETTER because it would allow us to have a more diverse and strategic way of using cards; than just focusing of all glass mole/warewolf/nuaele/blut/ and so on and of course this would also help to balance those cards as well; i can even see the glassmole/chapa card going back to 10seconds like at the start now or even more ; since we can have 3 at max.
what i want to say is: the limit with only 3 of the same type allow for a diverse grasp of gameplay; in some aspect where you would need at least 4 types of cards in your build and not the same everytime with those max-min.
Of course ; everyone could still limit themselves even with the current system and not focus on max-min; but who are we trying to lie to? if we could max one type of stronger card; everyone would do and i do it too; but still i would believe that having a grasp of limit3 cards plus this special one a better system; since this would come together with a card changes as well since in their msg they also talked about stronger cards ; allowing for better and stronger cards mixture than we have today because there is a limit of max 3 types.
i hope that we can see for example; those manaleching cards having a buff where allowing us to use 1 be enough to have a good amount of mana leech; or the ones with boss-large type damage; and so on.
Today those cards are simple not good enough because there is no limit on the number we can equip of them(besides the rank); and this can be the reason why they are so weak but once imc put multiple types of cards like for example: glass mole/manaleching/bosstype damage in the same type of card (example); there is no reason for them to still be weaker as them are now.

and this is why i believe the new system will be better.
of course i could be wrong and the new cards/old cards after the rework become even crap than now but i don’t know; no one know yet, i just know that this new system have a better way to handle cards and a more balanced way, since with a hard limit of 3 , we can have better and stronger cards.

#51

Did even you read what staff post?

From the current boss card system, in which you can equip a maximum of 8 cards (at Rank 8), we want to change to one where players can equip as much as 12 cards distributed over 4 types (3 cards for each type), regardless of Rank.

In the current system, if you have one or two cards with significantly high performance, those cards end up being the only ones equipped while the rest becomes simple fodder for EXP. With the new system, you can choose to equip different cards of all types according to the characteristics of your character.

We still don’t have an official name for each type of card, but they consist of 4 groups distinguished by the color of their slot border. The golden locked slot in the middle is for a fifth type of card we plan to introduce in a future update.

Along with the revamped card equip system, we want to add 5 new boss cards to match the updated game contents and readjust the effects of some cards that currently perform lower on the scale. When we do apply the boss card patch, all cards will be automatically unequipped with no level (★) penalty, but we’ll talk more about this before it’s applied to the game.

1 Like
#52

So, chapa and glass mole are same type of cards or are different?
I mean druids can still use 3x chapa and 3x glass mole if its different type but i doubt thats gonna happen

#53

Alright, let’s break down what you quoted (the new stuff since, I already broke down the 1st half of that on why it doesn’t say how the new system would be better).

All this says is there will be 5 colors with 1 color to be available “later”. There are no benefits explained AT ALL nor is there a mechanic explained in said post. All you as a reader can get from this is the system is more complex than the current 1 where complex does not mean “better”.

The only system we currently have that is even “close” is the colors we have for different roles among classes (red = dps , blue = defensive/control, green = support, yellow = utility) and we all know how “accurate” that was.

This next part reveals 5 new (we don’t even have all of the cards yet) cards to be added without giving anything else away. Again, more cards is simply a design of increased complexity and not better quality. They CAN add good cards, they are just as likely to add bad cards. They are also likely to make bad cards worse instead of better. I mean, they DID change HG drop from having a loot table to being completely RNG. We all know how good a decision that was for players.

The only “better” that can be drawn from this is the hope players put into it. That’s it. It’s the same “soon” fiasco for launch last year. People put words into IMC’s mouth and when they don’t get what they want “it’s IMC’s fault”. If you step back from the hype, the knee jerk, the speculation and look at these things for what they are you can be objective. This is objectively a reskin of the same mechanic that doesn’t address any of the problems of the old mechanic.

#54

I didn’t know Pardoner 3 still existed.

#55

I wish they’d delete the effect of Glassmole and Chapparition so that people start using other cards instead.

Even if Glassmole and Chapparition are limited to 3 cards, there’s still no benefit in choosing other cards in their section if they still add up to 30% more damage for a few seconds.
Those cards are unfair because they give less benefit to Classes with skills featuring longer skill durations and casttimes (i.e. affecting a lot of Cleric skills way less than Swordsman/Archer).

Pardoner 3 went extinct the moment that attributes didn’t affect the scrolls anymore.
No point scrolling anything anymore now.

1 Like
#56

Hi all, I know we are still more or less working on conjectures and speculations now, but does anyone have an idea:

  1. What the substats of the 2-hand maces are?

  2. Are they class locked? (i.e. specific classes under the Cleric tree)

  • What are the materials required?

Thank you very much!:slight_smile:

#57
  1. https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/items?type=THMace&order=ilvld&f=1 Two hand mace on test server.
  2. Require Attribute which can be learn by Monk or Paladin (C1 maybe): https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/attributes/10025.
  3. There are only 2 maces which can be crafted (315 practo): https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/items/7150036 / https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/items/7150035
#58

Aha, I see. Thank you very much!:slight_smile:

#59

How come two handed mace have magical power :slight_smile:

#60

there is only 3 classes of cleric that uses patk, even if we take in consideration that those maces are made for them; what the rest of classes that we must take that use them if there is no matk on 2hand mace?
there is not even a why here; it is there because it must be there for all other classes that uses m atk besides monk-pala-inqui, even if you need to take monk-pala anyway to use.

#62

I’d prefer if the range is centered around the cleric him/herself… it would be MUCH easier to aim. Same principle applies to sadhu’s possession.