Tree of Savior Forum

Need more people translating on the Github page

Translations
#82

I am a bit interested in translating Kor > Eng, however, there are a few things that I am worried about. How can you expect professional quality translations from a broad pool of casuals?

Also, shouldn’t translators be paid for their work? Clearly the game intends to make a profit, does it not? So, all the executives and programmers will be paid. Yet, translation does not qualify as a paid profession? I don’t think it’s wrong that posters should ask for some sort of compensation, even if it’s just a in-game title, or in-game currency, considering they are getting a free service that they really should be paying a professional to do.

My last question is about consistency. With such a large pool of contributors, none of which are communicating constantly, aren’t you going to get 10 different item names for the same object, or 3 different spellings for an NPC name?

Don’t get me wrong. I am not trying to be a jerk, or anything. I would definitely like to contribute. I spent 15 years working towards being a paid translator, and I find it disturbing that so many game developers (mostly Steam games) expect this all to be a volunteer service now, with absolutely no in-game perks.

#83

It’s likely related to Tree of Savior being so heavily crowdfunded and extending on Ragnarok’s largely open client; to the development team, it’s extremely convenient for this particular title’s translation to be crowdsourced as well (because all of the client’s text is available to every player anyway.)

The problem, as you’ve mentioned, is the massive swarm of highly amateur contributions. I don’t know Korean myself; I’m useful only for taking the garbled Engrish that comes out and making it pretty. I may also be able to figure out localized replacements for figures of speech, puns, or other things that tend to translate poorly.

#84

As far as I’m aware, you are the first person to outright voice those concerns. I’ve been very aware of it. As for why I still contributed for free… well, it’s a secret to everybody.

That said, I am mostly just waiting for imc to realise for themselves that something is dreadfully wrong with the project. I’ll email them outright after the cbt. I won’t tell you publicly.

Also, as far as I know, Tree of Savior was not crowdfunded at all - and please stop talking about Ragnarok. It’s impolite.

#85

Thanks for the reply. I think I might pass on the project. I keep thinking about some translator not paying their bills this month because of stuff like this. I don’t want to add to the problem. If I run across poor translations while playing the game, which happens in even properly translated games, I’ll consider contributing in that small sort of way.

#86

*** PLEASE READ ***

There is a system in place to prevent stuff like this, of which people in this thread should take a note of. I’m not as active as I once was with the translations (I’ll be on that during the ICBT) due to my bug testing of the KCBT3, but I’ve just noticed a lot of people haven’t been using this system:

Marking Lines That Have Been Edited

Most of the thread is a discussion, but:

For any line you edit and / or proof and then end up with a result where you are confident it sufficient enough to be placed in the game, put an “x” before the line’s number.

ex:
ETC_20150317_000001 -> xETC_20150317_000001
ITEM_20150317_000001 -> xITEM_20150317_000001
QUEST_20150317_000001 -> xQUEST_20150317_000001

Please, please, please do this. Lines with x’s can be proofed if you feel like it, but if all goes correctly, they shouldn’t require further editing.

*** THANK YOU ***

(I’ll post a thread for this tomorrow at a better hour, but hopefully some of you see this now)

#87

My issue with marking lines is that not only is it just ugly to look at, it shouldn’t be needed. People need to actually read the finished lines and think “Okay, this is a legitimate, coherent sentence, I won’t touch it.”

#88

Perhaps we need to put up a list of example lines - what to fix and what not to fix.

In my experience, it seems the longer you work in the project the more you appreciate the work that’s already been done. When I first started working I thought every line that even sounded slightly awkward needed changing, now that I know there are MANY lines that are far worse, I follow a doctrine: if I can understand the line, even if the grammar sucks I ain’t touching it.

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#89

This might be true, but if this were the case for everyone (as it should be - I’m agreeing with you, but…), then we wouldn’t have the issue of everyone editing the first section of lines of every document.

#90

To be honest, I think you guys should just run applications to be accepted into a sort of “open volunteer team” that’s still filtered for fluency in either English or Korean (with both being preferable.) Completely open translation crowdsourcing doesn’t seem to be effective and appears to be draining morale.

A smaller team will be more likely to communicate better anyway, so there should be less “constantly changing the same damn line” and next to no chance of edit wars.

Personally, I think I’ll just keep a local copy of my own edit and, once it has enough volume of actual changed lines, show it to everyone and let them pick. I mean, the client lets you override that stuff locally anyway, right? So it should be quite possible to make user pack translations that players can try out (no effort needed from the devs - they can just be posted on the forums.)

#91

Translation is a long process that involves a lot of trial and error. This means frequently going back over translations and editing them to ensure the quality level of the translation. If you are going to take offense to people doing this and try to enact measures to prevent others from critiquing your work, you are hindering this project.

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#92

In the spirit of collaboration, critiquing others’ work, and not making pull requests that conflict all over each other, here’s the proofreading work I’ve been doing on QUEST.tsv on my two forked branches. I’m posting this here to help get more eyeballs, but for consistency’s sake, it’s best for discussion to happen on Github itself.

Lines 1-700 (existing PR 626)
Lines 701-1100 (no PR cause there were too many)

It seems like a lot of the text past that is machine translated no man’s land, so I thought it would be prudent to stop there. Most of what I changed was grammar, capitalization, keeping a consistent space before newline but not after, changing two/three periods to a single ellipsis glyph, removing spaces and newlines from the ends of lines (should have just done mass replace there), but there was also some cleaning up of wording and a few spots with more heavy rephrasing.

Line 105 seemed pretty iffy, so I tried to use a light touch to restructure it, but it still doesn’t feel quite there to me.

Line 122 has a little commentary in the PR.

Lines 228 and 726: I’m not a huge buff on military terminology, but it seems like the use of detached and dispatched were incorrect. so I changed those to “stationed” and “deployed”.

Lines 841-843: A lesion is very different from a legion.

Line 871: Is “Blue Pondel” a proper noun or something? Is “Black Pond” on 874?

I also changed the third person pronouns for the Goddesses in various places to be capitalized, since “Goddess” itself was capitalized. It seemed like the right thing to do, but it was a big judgment call on my part.

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#93

The problem isn’t that we don’t want people editing our lines; the problem is we are trying to avoid people jumping the gun and over-editing lines so much, that all the detail from the original Korean text could be lost before we play the game and understand the context.

Nobody knows how many passes each line has seen, so while Pass #1 might make the line sound less Engrish-like, every other guy coming in thinking their version is better will whittle the sentence down until by Pass #6 it loses its original meaning. People could also for the sake of “smooth sounding” English add words, risking adding detail not meant to be there.

I have also seen lines go from with commas to without, and then with commas again. Common sense says projects don’t move forward with situations like that.

#94

Will do it asap, nothing better to do than just sit infront of the PC and look at ToS site haha :smiley: regards!

#95

For everyone saying that it seems like too many people are editing now in response to my original post, there was a surge of volunteers after the icbt was announced, where previously we had maybe 2-3 active volunteers before I made this thread.

#96

Until the beta test is over, I won’t be submitting any pull requests and plan to use the in game functions to edit anything that is a major issue. My main question is: does this only apply locally or is a notification sent out? I really haven’t seen much to clarify that.

Though I was quite pleased to see my edits were accepted. <3

#97

The original text is shown right next to the suggested edits. All edits are subject to review by IMC before being added into the official files. Unless you’re inferring that IMC doesn’t understand the original meaning of the text in their own game, your concerns are baseless. The issue with constant grammar edits is due to the egos of amateur translators, who don’t think they could ever possibly be wrong, taking offense to people correcting their mistakes. Unfortunately, any crowdsourced project is going to have that problem. The in-game editor will thankfully resolve most of these issues. Godspeed to its release.

#98

I’m an experienced translator from Dragon Nest foreign versions. I co created the DN CN translation patch and am self taught Korean 100% type/pronounce, and I know SOME words. My specialty is making gibberish make sense, but I do it all from Korean to English. I’ve done probably a total of 100,000 lines or more including full UIString, tons of quests and NPC dialogue.

I’m going to start looking at the github, and working on some committs, but in the mean time it’ll be a little hard since I’m used to testing my translations in game to make sure they look good and fit well/don’t get cut off.

I translate quickly, follow storyline-appeal and make very few mistakes (which I quickly fix as well). Github name is Vinn101. I cross reference between KR strings and EN strings constantly to make sure coding is right with my new translations.

Examples:

신수의 날 이후 부베족이 활개를 치자 그에 대비한 장비가 발달하기 시작했습니다. 앞으로도 부베들이 더 행패를 부린다면, 이 장비의 이름은 같아도 차후의 성능은 더 좋아질지 모릅니다.

This equipment has been in development since the day the gods roamed the planet, and preparations have finally begun in making it. There is no knowing how strong this item will be, so only the future will tell.

서버전체이동속도픽스

Full Server Speed Fix

자루에서 익숙한 거칠음을, 날에서 차가운 잔인함을 느낄 수 있습니다. 훌륭한 사용자는 보통 전자만을 체험합니다.

This rough sack feels familar. It feels cold to the touch. It yields great amounts of experience when used.

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#99

@ignoranceforu You can refer to this if you have any doubts about text fitting.

#100

I don’t have a GitHub account but I’ve been following the discussion here and there.
Since it seems machine translation are no longer welcome, someone should change the How to get Started page on the wiki to erase this part: https://github.com/Treeofsavior/EnglishTranslation/wiki/1.%20How%20to%20Contribute#dont-know-korean-but-still-want-to-contribute

I certainly thought this was a valid way to contribute when I got there at first…

#101

Only IMCgames can edit that wiki and they’ve been kinda too busy to change anything, so many of us current Github contributors have been now trying to make our own wiki to have some control over project orientation for newcomers. This one is one that’s more updated:

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