I don’t have a problem with Talt being in the cubes, but what happens is the cube rate looks something like this: Talt 95%, useless item 4%, <1% decent item. The main point in my suggestion isn’t the individual items, it’s adding mid tier rewards, and enhancing the <1%.
I’m not necessarily opposed to a rework of cubes, they’re used in so many places that they become boring, but we don’t want to lose the advantage of silver sinks, and we don’t want to give out items too easily. Part of my hesitation comes from the lack of details in the Rewards section pertaining to what exactly the rewards are, what their drop chance is, and what the stats will be.
If the mechanics allow people to horde them competitively then people WILL horde them competitively.
Our old guild back in the worldbossing days had a lot of things setup to accurately track and predict bosses across the world so that we could keep them for ourselves.
The point is, if we want worldbossing back, we need the system to be robust so that everyone gets a fair go at it without any of the super-organised guilds being able to do what we used to do.
If they gave us worldbossing back without a robust system to keep it fair, I guarantee all the same complaints will occur all over again and then we’ll lose worldbossing all over again.
Just see for yourself how organised we were:
Discord bots to give time/alerts and notices to guild members from a website tracking the times:
Graphs tracking server population on different maps/channels so we could see when other guilds might be tracking a boss, giving us a method of estimating where bosses we might have missed are:
I am for making sure everyone is happy with a new version of worldbossing. There shouldn’t be any complaints about it. The old system was fun for those of us that took part in it, but there’s no doubt in my mind that if ANY aspect of it can be taken competitively then players will take it to the absolute extremes in order to compete with “rival” guilds.
We should avoid the things that created complaints before, even if I really enjoyed the stupidly hardcore way we approached it. It doesn’t make the community happy.
The Cube itself turns into other items upon opening it. The ones listed above will all be given to you to have fun opening afterward. But only the Equipment and Booster Packs should be able to be rerolled in my opinion. As they are more needed in some aspects, especially equipment; cards for sorcerers too.
Those graphs would remind me about how FFXIV’s events, duties and WBs were controlled. A solution to it would be to have it as an instanced fight; as every group or several parties of groups would have their own World Boss. But that would need a lot and I mean A LOT of back-end server management to process in one place in different regions of the game at once.
Another solution would be that if you are in a Party and enter the highlighted area. You will only be able to see your Party and no one else, lessening the lag and overall clusterf*ck of animations from skills and attacks.
Then I’ve hit a wall on that part. If no solutions can be made from optimizing the fight, then all the other suggestions made thus far would also be pointless.
We can’t give up though, we must find a way to make it work. We all want a better experience for World Bosses! But how do we manage the lag from the fight sequence, hm…
They definitely have the skills to do this with Nexon owning 30% of the company now. They can borrow expertise for some server aspects.
The question they will ask themselves is whether it is worth spending time doing it or not. It would be at least a couple of months work for one of the dev team. It depends on whether they think that time spent on other games they have will be more worthwhile in income.
I don’t want to be “that” guy but let’s be honest.
If I’m right to what you’re answering to:
Opinion 1) I’m not sure if I got it correctly but I doubt it would be that problematic. We already have guild raids that includes bosses and enemies together as instanced fights. You can spawn a quest/raid-like instance once a group engages in a fight with a boss. It shouldn’t pose any technical problems, like at all.
Opinion 2) It’s really easy to make you only see your own party, if they don’t do that it isn’t related to lack of knowledge or state of the game or anything like this.
IMO, what is mostly important on both opinions is about designing them and making sure they work properly without abuse or anything like that and as well blend with the design of everything else in the game. Implementation/coding-wise, they already have them working on other parts of the game.
(If I’m wrong and got any of the opinions and answer in a way it shouldn’t, sorry. I’m sleepy rn.)
Our version has many times more potential for profit than KR/JP though. There’s a reason a significant social media effort is ongoing to drive population again. They’ve clearly got a real marketing team behind the game now which is something that was never there right from the beginning.
25% increase in population so far in the last 14 days. This effort and momentum should continue at least up until 1-2 weeks after the summer combat update. Provided something catastrophic doesn’t happen in that time to make people quit we can expect concurrent players to be around 10k conservative estimate or 20k optimistic estimate by then.
Bear in mind that concurrent players != total players. The average time played is 2.4hours. Meaning you can multiply concurrent players by (24/2.4). Giving a total of 100k active players around that time.
Things start to look pretty good. International pop should become higher than combined KR/JP if they keep things on track. There is always a risk of them hurting population with something the players would strongly reject though, like p2w. But we can only wait and see what they decide to do. It would honestly be a big mistake in my opinion, the game has longterm potential if they keep going in the positive direction. People are currently approving of a lot.
I think we’re at a point in time now where we can be optimistic about getting what we want. We do need to make what we want heard constructively though.
On the plus side, some of the most constructive forum contributors have returned. We’ve got some serious math heads that have come back, old worldbossers, some of the positive hardcore players, so there’s a lot of good forum content appearing right now for them to see.
Make the world bosses dimensional tears in the land. Re-use the crack in the ground from the Demon Prison storyline as the art asset for it.
When a worldboss location spawns. The dimensional crack opens up. Players go to this crack and use it in order to fight the worldboss, this puts them into an instance. If there need to be multiple instances then they can have a selection option for the instance, and show what the player limits are.
This puts the idea into the gameworld lore while also achieving the outcome with things we already know existing in game - the guild instances that spawn but are not usable except under certain circumstances.
I like it. It’s a solid solution with all the things that already exist.
Now imagine that with 1000+ players, how many instances would be needed to be created? Each instance is equivalent to a new channel but in a smaller scale (if you are using the instanced quest bosses as sample).
Do you really think the server would be able to handle that?
Like WoW active instancing? I don’t know if this engine can do that, but even if it can, what I said above will still be an issue.
The thing is, if they could do, they would had done it already, but then again, they still trying to fix stuff that was fixed, then got broken again, and now they can’t fix it.
Don’t get me wrong, I assumed the bad/negative guy role because I’m tired of the same old excuses, in fact, not even that we have, it’s always some kind of evasive answer and most of them end up with a silly laugh at the end or a silly joke to try to break the ice.
I do want this game to go with all it can, but the guys behind it already pissed me off.
You either do it properly, if you know you messed up in the middle, you either stop, or restart.
As I said before, I wouldn’t mind they close for now, rework the whole thing that is needed and come back.
I would come back to this game to play it, no matter how long it would take to fix it properly.
Anyway, lets leave this as it is or the thread will be even more derailed.
I’m sleepy also and hungry, so we can continue this tomorrow on other thread or even on discord lol.
Thaanks, but it wasn’t really a suggestion >.< I was just replying to Niri about why @abcounter100 suggestions/opinions makes sense and are possible and doesn’t add any technical problems to the game, since they already exists >.<
Then I added an example of how something similar already exists in the game (or could be adapted to, since the core features exists).
You just gave yet another way as how it could be put in practice (which I’ll also say I liked your suggestion :P), and as well it would be pretty cool to have some effects that fits a specific boss spawning such as DP2 portal or even a different instance-animation/portal for each boss, like, containing its theme or something that symbolizes the boss.
Yes, why not? Wouldn’t this be the same as when multiple players are questing on a single map? It currently doesn’t affect it in any way.
To support my opinion I’d also agree that quest/guild-raid instance aren’t a true server instance and doesn’t require a new connection but disagree that it’s equivalent to creating a new channel. AFAIK, you can even drop DPK items inside the quest-like instance.
You just get isolated from the rest of map and interact with different things, just like if the other players weren’t near you and you weren’t near them, actually it should even reduce information processed since you don’t need to send what happens in one instance to another and that reduces the number of players giving and receiving inputs. It just works and afaik there’s no problem ever reported about quest-like instances that would make this impossible.
I was responding citing @abcounter100’s 2nd opinion that you replied to which isn’t talk about instances.
Plus the engine is pretty well capable of doing that. To support it I’d cite warmode addon that disable effects, for disable specific ones you just need to use to have ownership information in skills to disable them, we have that for things such as inverted color for enemy skills.
As well for characters we have a setting that disables rendering more than X characters which for sure can be adapted to stop rendering specific ones in your screen. Plus I remember someone talking about addons on old Excrulon’s discord when making addons for dealing with pets and mouse mode that they could remove an entity (the pet) from the map completely, it is totally possible and part of the game.
In the worse of all scenarios you can just stop sending others players information to each client from server-side which also achieves the same result, just like you don’t receive information from others while in a quest-like instance.
I’d repeat myself again. The problem isn’t doing it.
The problem is thinking if it’s really the right solution, designing and thinking ahead of that. I’d advocate that it is actually possible to implement most, if not all, solution we keep talking since CBTs.
If something is in the game already there’s no reason to say “they can’t do it, they can’t code it”. If they couldn’t the similar features wouldn’t exist in the first place.
I know, I’m not judging you. But I do want to stop here and talk about it because if we start assuming bad things this way it will stop other people from giving valuable feedback because they agreed with the thing you said, even though you could be wrong.
Just think about what we just talked about, the instance-like boss is really totally possible but one single person can prevent good/similar suggestions from others simply because you put a possible technical problem that really isn’t the case, or - staying in the safe side - could be the case for some scenarios but isn’t the case for others.
I’m just answering you and showing my opinion and reason why I think that way that these type of suggestions like boss instances really works and they can totally be implemented. Even if they are not accepted to be part of the game design all ideas are welcome and generate even more ideas. I’m really against discarding an entire group of suggestions, especially when some even are alternatives to deal with possible limitations, just because one person says something that seems to make sense but may not be the real thing nor how it really works.
Instances are scaleable already. They solved the scaleability problem that previously occurred when too many people were trying to run a dungeon at the same time, stopping people from being able to do their runs because there was no more space to generate new instances.
Now the infrastructure is elastic.
Either way, it’s simple enough for a solution to that to be built too. When no space for new instances is available, those unable to join can enter a queue for the next available instance.
I don’t think this is a concern anyway though. We’re talking about far bigger numbers than need to be considered at this point, we’re entering into the world of hypothetical scenarios rather than the reality that currently exists. They can solve the hypothetical problem if it ever becomes a problem in future when pops increase.
FFXI already had boss and rare monster camping problems. They eventually added in items to pop the boss or monster right by the spawn point then made gear from that untradable because of RMT and greedy people. Then they added instance fights from tokens which drop from any monster within different level brackets. This solved all camping problems effectively with different ways to get your stuff incase someone monopolized everything.
These servers can not handle tons of instances because ever heard of “Maximum Capacity Exceeded”?
They actually do affect, I remember during EA and even at OBT (there was one for the short time it would be lol), many complaining about the most different things, specially lag, other stuff that happened was triggering the quest boss get you stuck and didn’t summon the boss, it was a small percentage tho but happened, also, after finishing the boss you couldn’t return from the instance.
Not counting the slow response from NPC’s (including bosses), skills and even movement.
I’m not saying it can’t be fixed, but I doubt IMC will do it so soon, and I turn to repeat, they don’t know what they are doing.
You know what system from WoW I’m referring to right? When you are questing, lets take the WotLK content where it was presented, in the last map of that content, where there is that fair or w/e it’s called we work our arses off for reputation, that thing is instanced, you only see it after completing some quest line, when you fly there without doing it, you will see some players fading in that area, that is the one I meant.
Yes I do agree there, well I will avoid the negative part from now on, only when necessary.
That is simple solved by increasing the capacity, but then again, in the actual state, that would cause more instability. But the suggestion still can be done, we never know when IMC decide to wake up and “get some proper” knowledge.
One thing I would love to see is the bosses moving through the maps, some NPC’s that interact with it like:
In DP, some Kupoles could be trying to seal the boss, but the boss will stomp the ground and make bolder fall on top of them, that also could hit the players for a small damage but have a knock back effect and of course the skill would have a CD.
Players who fight the boss also need to protect/cure the Kupoles or the boss get stronger (can add 10% extra dmg or HP or recover HP, etc…), that way you have more strategic points during the fight while teaching people to be more cooperative (I wonder if this would even work lol, humans are so greed to the point of selling their own mother).
Those are only examples, other fights could have different stuff, like, kill the boss before it reach a certain area of the map and destroy an important object, you can destroy something set during the path to change the boss path increasing the distance and allowing the players more time to kill it.
A channel comes with all its setups, a new connection to the server that handles channel, prolly an AI controller or wrapper to the main AI controller, a controller for the drop system that must accommodate the information of all players and monster in the map, the combat system handling that also holds information of all skills being cast and chat (when you lose connection to main server and can’t send party/guild messages but still can send normal messages shows that Normal chat is handled by the same server that handles channel instead of the main one that handles login, party, friends etc), plus things we don’t know.
A quest/raid-like instance carries on the channel info and runs inside a channel, so you won’t have any Maximum Capacity Exceeded problems because you’re already inside a channel being put into a somewhat sandbox that “shares” everything a channel have and it needs.
From this point the Capacity Exceeded wouldn’t apply since it’s not a channel instance.
I honestly don’t remember this but you have one point.
One problem though is understanding (and remembering if we have the info) if this affected other monsters and/or skills outside the quest-like instances as well or only instances and if the reason was actually the server being under heavy load (would cause the problem to almost everyone) or something else such as client side problems.
I wouldn’t yet blame the number of instances since they do not carry on new channel info nor anything that creating a channel does.
I agree with you. I doubt IMC will fix it soon. Period. But the problem isn’t happening so there’s nothing to fix at the moment, I guess? It could be already fixed or hidden in some few cases.
If the problem is hidden with somewhat an obscure reason that only happens in certain specific scenarios it will be fixed if they decided to use it extensively and it starts to happen.
So, again, I wouldn’t discard suggestions that talks about raid/quest-like instances. Afaik from my guild doing raids almost in a daily basis there’s almost no boss problems (the existing bugs that does happens are related to something else) there’s no issues that seems to be caused by heavy load. We could even ask someone from SEA servers such as @Nekorin since they did/do raids to see if there’s heavy load problems there related to guild raids or quest that seems to be caused by load problems.
But let’s be honest, if we are talking about putting World Bosses in an instance when the server is handling 1000 players per channel that’s a whole different scenario just like @Awoooo said. All channel limitation would already exist within the raid/quest-like instances since they run on the same channel. These problems with 1000 players per channels would appear elsewhere first.
No. I didn’t play WoW but I’ll search about it >.< But isn’t it the same that happens when you’re a lower level character and someone runs into a quest trigger and disappears right on your face to enter the quest-like instance?
Well, it isn’t like just for avoiding negative parts. You can’t exclude all negative comments.
But when we’re talking about technical things in a negative way and putting limitations, I’d say it’s better to put up a good reasoning for what you’re saying or not go all negative.
People that doesn’t have the knowledge but have good ideas wouldn’t argue with you “oh, right, the instance limit problem” and it ends there.
But what if (and seems to be the case from how DPK works and how you can still see people’s position on mini-map etc) that quest/raid-like instance really aren’t like a new channel and doesn’t affect it that way?
So like, the “instance limit problem” doesn’t apply. You get in a place of discarding valuable idea or putting some limitation where they doesn’t exist and most people wouldn’t even argue because “it makes sense” (which doesn’t mean it’s true or that you’re right, [as well doesn’t mean that I am but I am truly sure it doesn’t carry on the channel creation limitations >.<]).
He knows damn well that problem was solved and everyone reading this is smart enough to know bringing up a problem solved over half a year ago just looks stupid.
The servers can handle it fine.
Shockingly, if you have 1000 people on the server, and you move 300 people into different instances, you still have 1000 people on the server. Hardware isn’t the issue, it was a software problem that was fixed ages ago.
It did, I just forgot to add, I remember trying to finish some quests in the starting maps when we all started anew and the NPC simple didn’t respond, only after some seconds (or minutes in some extreme cases) they would show the dialogue.
It actually looks like lol, but it’s so smooth on WoW that you don’t notice that you got instanced unless you see a NPC appearing out of nowhere lol.
The instances are limited yet, it doesn’t appear as of now because the player base dropped considerable.
It was 1 or 2 months ago last time I really played, and there was barely anyone in the most populated maps (except DBF afkers and DP botters), if I saw people doing quests, it was around 4 or 5, and I leveled a damned char from 1 to 325 only bumping on those people every now and then.
Anyway, the idea here got good, we got all the good and bad points pin pointed, not sure about the rewarding, I didn’t paid attention on that since it would be the easiest part to deal with.
Also, without a properly optimization, the fight won’t turn out well, it may be there working in the server side, but on client side you will see many with less than 1 FPS or even freezing/crashing because of all the stuff on the screen.
