Tree of Savior Forum

My 2 cents on why trading was paywalled

ok. 1st of all.
this system came to fruition just before the launch of the korean open beta and there was a very strong response by the international community, some people like myself stayed reserved about it since “its only in the kr version”

for some reason IMC didn’t listen to us and they kept the system, many new players to the game that came with this one month EA are confused and disappointed with the system
(hence all the salt / suggestion threads)

as you can see you’ll just get more negative responses. this thing has been brewing from way back then and i dont think your justifications will do much about it.

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Sorry for calling you delusional, it’s just that many people are trying to be white knights when IMC doesn’t deserve it, at all. It’s starting to get to me. Everything they did so far (payment model-wise) is just so shameless that I don’t have words to express how horrible and greedy a company they are.

Actually, it’s not that they are greedy, they can be equally greedy with cosmetics, but that would be fine, because we would actually be buying things that we like then. They are literally cash grabbing, because playing the game without a token right now is just insanity. They just don’t believe in their own game, their own community, it’s insulting.

They could’ve at least made a reasonable VIP.

  • 0% commission for token users, 10% for f2p.
  • 2 attributes training at once for both token and f2p, but 50% faster training for token users.
  • 3 runs of dungeon for both token and f2p players, but 25% lower cooldown for entries for token players.
  • Trading open for everyone, 100% (It’s absurd to restrict trading, basic mmorpg feature)
  • 30% xp gain is fine
  • 5 market slots for f2p players, 10 or more for token users.

Stuff like that would be more acceptable for me. This right now is just…cancer for f2p players.

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Tell me how you archieve the feeling of playing with your friends, getting a rare equip drop and sharing it with someone on the spot, just because you’re friends and the guy needs it.

Or having a friend dedicate his time to help you get a rare drop, because you already grinded that spot for two days and didn’t get the drop. I once farmed 22k smokies in RO to get the card. 22.000! The only thing that kept me from insanity is that I had someone help me after the 10k mark, and we had fun in TS and enjoyed our time. You won’t get to this expierience with the active system!

The current system tries to stop RMTs but fails to do so. They do use premium benefits, so don’t tell me it could stop them. Meanwhile, any interaction between party members is cancelled out (for non-premiums). Atleast we need some system like Diablo 3 has it, where you can share loot with party members for a few hours, if they were online when it dropped.

Summoning @Staff_Julie: I think you’re aware of this, but still…

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That’s fine, apology accepted :slight_smile: . I was never trying to white knight, just trying to incite some meaningful discussion involving both sides of the argument instead of just constant IMC flaming. However it seems after enduring a bit of hate I was somewhat successful.

You make some nice suggestions. The dungeon cooldown part may be slightly hard to implement due to the fact that it resets at midnight instead of on a timer. I also feel now that trading could be allowed between premium and non premium users since it still encourages purchasing the token, yet still allows trades. Trades between free users I feel would be too hard to get past their accounting division :stuck_out_tongue: But any sort of advancement would be welcome. As long as you can’t directly trade silver. That’s the trigger which would cause the bots to step up their game.

This. This is the solution to the entire debate.

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make it 3 individual counter for dungeons
for token users +1 on mercenary mission since it does give a good amount of exp

50% is a bit big make it 10%~20%

others suggestion is ok

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I was playing iCBT without token and now i’m playing using one, tbh i dont notice any difference. I’ve yet to experience trading system woes since i’m playing solo atm, but i tend to agree that limitations should be reworked. However this [quote=“Skygrinder, post:17, topic:179415”]
ANYTHING on the market with 30% commission is a loss.
[/quote] is not how economics works.
Bottomline is: I agree with OP that token is optional and not really necessary to play.

The market fees are a silver sink to avoid inflation. Now I can agree with the argument that there are already plenty of silver sinks in the game and the market fees could be reduced a bit. That is a valid argument. I’ll add a post in the gameplay suggestions thread.

Sure, you can avoid inflation with f2p players at a 30% but premium players only have to pay 10% fee (premium players can sell more items at once so the most inflation thing is coming from premium players rather than from f2p users).

The market already has plenty of items in it. Even more once it goes f2p. Sell your items one at a time and leave the rest in storage.

I was not talking about spending money at auction. I was talking about gain some money selling things (only 1 item at a 30% fee…OKAI) Besides, what storage? That one limited as hell with a hella of items which you cannot stack?

Prevents premium gold sellers trading expensive equips to non-premium players. Also prevents a premium player acting as a market middleman.

Look, goldsellers are looking for people with money, so they are not interested in f2p users and they still can sell a ton of ■■■■ to players with tokens.

Now that I was unaware of. I thought premium players could trade directly with each other. That I will report too.

If you are premium but your friends are not, you cannot trade with them. Which just sucks.

Stops players purchasing one set of gear and trading it between all their characters to gain the full effect of it four or more times. If this was possible it would greatly increase the gap between the rich and the poor as those players farmed high level areas and bosses for valuable loot to sell on the market, or “funded” a low level character to be able to wipe out dungeons and stuff instantly, turning the game into a solo grind.

So? If i go play diablo 3, path of exile, ragnarok online and whatever the ■■■■■■■ game I want to play I always could pass items to my other chars so I can wipe the early stages of their lame questing progression.

Creates an item sink in the economy, thus reducing the effects of inflation and power creep. It greatly encourages players to make their own gear, also discouraging RMT in the process

Well, I think that this point you made is true. Anyways I don’t really like the potential system to be honest.

This one should probably be considered on a case by case basis. There isn’t a global argument that works here.

No, there isn’t a global argument but it seems that IMC were a bit random putting the “untradable” tab to some things.

■■■■ economics, lol.

If you pay/farm 120k worth of materials and have to sell the crafted item that used all those materials for 60k, something is wrong.

And if you add -30% on top of that, that’s 42k sale. Compared to 10% commission of token users…yes, you are losing, because they force you to lower the price, because with their 10% commission, they can afford to lower it, f2p player with 30%, can’t.

I might as well give it to a friend for free. Oh wait, I can’t even do that, trading is restricted.

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The personal storage so you don’t have to carry things around all the time. Gaining money selling things is just slower. Sell 1 at a time instead of 5. Or get creative and strike a deal using the megaphones before listing the item. I see many people doing that.

Works the other way. Stops premium players buying from non premium bot. Although if you’re premium and willing to support the game then why you would buy silver is beyond me …

Yes but this isn’t diablo 3, path of exile, ragnarok online or whatever the ■■■■■■■ game you want to play. It’s Tree of Savior, where quests actually give good exp and partying up instead of focusing on damage all the time is encouraged. The early game is still really fun, and the quests and lore is nice.

It is fun two or three times. I did it like 10 - 12 times (including orsha questing only 5 - 6) and there are quest boring as hell (repeteable digging for carbon, wow), other that you just can’t accomplish (commanderloadfail + magic demon circles COMBO BREAKER), dungeons crashing/not working, monsters spawn issues (glizardon, oh dear glizardon), overpopulated areas…

Well then noone can help you and it becomes a grind fest :stuck_out_tongue:

Honestly, I don’t think IMC will change the team storage restrictions though.

First of all why you mixing those two together?
Second, there is always an option to sell your item annd materials you farmed to the NPC vendor, whats wrong with that?

He’s worried that they might be worth a lot for recipes, but trying to sell them would be too hard/not profitable enough with the current market system.

Loot is the heart and soul of mmorpg and what they are doing killing there game. If you cant trade items you have no reason to go loot hunting and if you aren’t loot hunting in an mmo you aren’t playing it.

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Don’t misundertand me, I really enjoy this game but there are a lot of things that putting together are just not working; there’s no social interactions between the premium players with the f2p players. It is like there are two societies playing a different game.
I mean, as an example; yes, you could have a lambo, some yachts and two or three private jets but you still can interact with other people because there’s no law that forbid people to trade with you if they don’t earn at least 200.000$ every year.

Can’t really compare real life to a game considering you can farm silver out of nowhere.

Trading is not the selling point of a game so the notion that they did it to increase profits is just absurd. They didn’t put trade behind the paywall to increase profits. They put the trade behind a paywall to try to combat RMT. Most of the revenue generated from MMO’s are from enchantment and cosmetic items.

Terrible decision to put trade behind premium anyway. I can afford the $18 a month but players shouldn’t be have features removed or restricted because of RMT or bots. That’s like… cutting games up into DLC because of pirates… oh wait…

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What about crafting classes? How are they supposed to be useful and benefit from their choice, when they are stuck on their silver/gear? I’d rather choose an efficient raid/PvE/PvP class instead of Alchemist/[…] when I can’t use my funds for alt chars anyway.