Tree of Savior Forum

My 2 cents on why trading was paywalled

General Discussion
#1

This game is free to play. Having said that, it is both developed and published by a relatively small studio. You honestly cannot expect them to provide you everything for free otherwise they will go out of business. I find it already quite incredible value that everyone can enjoy the entirety of the ToS world for the low low price of free. There are many MMOs out there that are pay to play and deliver nowhere near the amount of content ToS has and will have.

It really needs to be made clear that the token offering several benefits is how a premium subscription business model is supposed to work. That being said, the game is still 100% free to play and anything you could achieve with a token is still achievable without one. The token is meant to be a very lucrative deal. That’s how IMC intends to fund this game.

So something has to give. In this case, restricting most aspects of trading behind the paywall kills two birds with one stone. It gives players a huge incentive to go premium without restricting any content whatsoever, and it also helps combat RMT. If you are trying to argue that the lack of trading is stopping you from playing or interacting with others, then maybe you aren’t resourceful enough. I am not attacking people who think this way. If you can come up with a solution to the RMT and gold seller problem while still keeping the economy from inflating like a balloon and making the token benefits still lucrative, I’m all ears.

EDIT: was not aware 1:1 trading with both players premium was not possible. I agree with adding that in, I will be posting a suggestion later.

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Can we stop with the term White Knight?
#2
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#3

You can still buy and sell items on the market. You can still play and progress through the entire game. I don’t see the problem.

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#4

another whiteknight thread, you forgot to mention they should up the price to 50$ / token and limit it even further to 10 trader / month max.
This way they will earn even more, because 50 is more than 20…
Also, there will be more server stability because there will be less players.
Maybe also add +1000% exp
All my points give players a huge incentive to go premium without restricting any content whatsoever, and it also helps combat RMT.

/endsarcasm

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#5

-30% fee on market if you are not premium
-Limited items to sell at auction
-No direct trade even if your buddy is premium and you are not.
-No direct trade in any circunstances whatsoever
-No shared storage between your own chars (*sigh)
-Very limited storage (which it is full of non stackable gems and cards)
-Items potential (another great idea *sigh)
-A lot of “untradable” items, even shitty recipes -i.e. the goat horns-

You still can play, of course, but why are you playing any MMO with 0 social interactions? Why the heck do you have to pay around 20$ so you can do the most basical thing of every grinding game which is trading?

Don’t argue nonsense because this is doing nothing against bots and ■■■■■■■ every player (remember, we are founders anyways and we still can’t trade which it is a kick in our balls).

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#6

… yes but they didn’t?

The current benefits of the token give slightly faster levelling and selling multiple items on the market and stuff because you paid for it.

And if you don’t pay for it, you can still level just slightly slower and still sell items, just one at a time.

#7

Appealing cosmetics AND A LOT of them and they won’t go out of business, in fact, they thrive.

GGG started in a garage, they are running PoE with cosmetics alone.

That’s a much more humble beginning than a guy that created RO and multiple other games starting a new development team.

Why does a social mmorpg only have 1 costume per class/gender? Instead of over 50 already? Why are we spending money on a VIP status like we’re playing some shitty browser mmorpg, instead of spending our money on things that we like?

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#8

30% fee on market if you are not premium

The market fees are a silver sink to avoid inflation. Now I can agree with the argument that there are already plenty of silver sinks in the game and the market fees could be reduced a bit. That is a valid argument. I’ll add a post in the gameplay suggestions thread.

Limited items to sell at auction

The market already has plenty of items in it. Even more once it goes f2p. Sell your items one at a time and leave the rest in storage.

No direct trade even if you buddy is premium and you are not.

Prevents premium gold sellers trading expensive equips to non-premium players. Also prevents a premium player acting as a market middleman.

No direct trade in any circumstances whatsoever

Now that I was unaware of. I thought premium players could trade directly with each other. That I will report too.

No shared storage between your own chars / very limited storage

Stops players purchasing one set of gear and trading it between all their characters to gain the full effect of it four or more times. If this was possible it would greatly increase the gap between the rich and the poor as those players farmed high level areas and bosses for valuable loot to sell on the market, or “funded” a low level character to be able to wipe out dungeons and stuff instantly, turning the game into a solo grind.

Item potential

Creates an item sink in the economy, thus reducing the effects of inflation and power creep. It greatly encourages players to make their own gear, also discouraging RMT in the process.

Untradeable items

This one should probably be considered on a case by case basis. There isn’t a global argument that works here.

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#9

a solution that creates more problems is not a solution at all.
this whole trade system feels dirty to me

its like giving people free cake inside a box that requires an $20 dollar key to open, sure the cake is free but eating the cake is not.

feels like they want a cut of the gold sellers profits by making them pay a fee so they can start selling gold.

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#10

because maybe there are more glaring issues to solve at the moment, like server instability and bug fixes

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#11

It doesn’t cause problems though. The game is perfectly playable and enjoyable and progress can be made without 1:1 trading.

It’s not like theres a lack of silver. Monsters drop plenty of silver. With the amount of grind needed later on you’ll be rich in a day anyway.

People are acting like the lack of trading is actively destroying their experience in the game.

#12

oh lord.
do you play alone or something?

sharing that sweet loot with your freinds is impossible waiting for 2 days to get profit is frustrating, shaving off 30% of that is just insult to injury

then why are you making this thread?
if it didnt cause problems people wouldn’t complain about it.
the problem is not with the gameplay itself its how the product is presented to the people

its an “or else” situation
better have that token “or else” your selling and trading experience will be close to non existent. etc.

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#13

Completely unrelated issues.

Bugs, lag, server stability, that’s all long term issues that they will need to work on and improve on as they go.

Bending over players and making them spend money on crap is not, they will lose players over it, permanently.

In a year, you can bet that you won’t see a player on every single map, like you do now if things stay as they are. If they change, they can make ToS a really great game and become a loved team that some people will even support straight up, without even wanting anything in return. Not that they shouldn’t give them anything.

They can make support packs with physical goodies, like OSTs, posters, T-shirts, plushies…etc.

There’s so many ways they can be creative about how they earn money. There’s no need for these restrictions.

Hell, they can do what GGG did and have players be able to create their own unique items to be added to the game for everyone, for a big price.

Simply because ToS has some unique items, like mace for Sadhu that makes his OOB auto-attacks scale with SPR, instead of INT.

So people CAN be creative about the item, and then they can balance it and add it to the game.

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#14

ouch.

I mentioned above that I was unaware of the lack of direct trading between token users. However, if that was implemented then there should be no problem.

Because I’m honestly getting depressed seeing all the negative responses out there and wanted to provide some justification to the many complaint threads I saw.

Also I’m going to go request 1:1 trading for token users now.

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#15

But they’re not making you spend money on crap. The token is optional. If you get a nice piece of loot in a dungeon just sell it on the market.

#16

Well much of it is already debated to death already. People do KNOW the justification to the complaints.

We just think the justification is really weak, and so isn’t strong enough to overcome the many problems that the trade restriction poses. If anything, I think item trading should be allowed without silver trading. That would make sense and be a suitable compromise.

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#17

What are you? Delusional?

Token is not optional, playing without it is absurd. The moment I get 500k, I’m buying it.

Anything you get, you lose silver by selling it, due to 30% commission, not to MENTION that token users can always lower the price of the item and gain more, than you ever will.

My ludas staff started on 150k, token users kept lowering the price. Now the lowest price is 65k. I took it off the market, it’s simply not worth selling at all at this point. Just gonna save it for my wizard character.

Ludas staff, based on prices of the materials for it is worth AT LEAST 120k.

Market is useless for f2p players. All silver you earn is from selling crap to NPCs and farming. Selling ANYTHING on the market with 30% commission is a loss.

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#18

@elysium I like you, you present a logical counter argument while contributing to the discussion.

I reckon a party based loot sharing system would be awesome and would solve all the issues here while still keeping their monetization system intact.

#19

I agree with you on the market thing. I could do without the name calling though.

I’ll compile all the ideas from this thread for a trading system update post in the suggestions subforum.

#20

My biggest problem with no trade is definitely because sometimes items drop for your friends class, and it’s better than what they have, but you have no way of giving it to them right now…
That’s bad.

Sure you could put it on the market, but if you put it at the lowest possible price, someone else may scoop it up before you friend can.

Bad feelings all around.

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