Tree of Savior Forum

Melee vs Ranged

General Discussion
#1

It has to be said, so let’s go forth with it already. ToS has some pretty glaring issues that make Melee severely disadvantageous when compared to Ranged. They break down to three root issues. Let’s highlight them briefly.

First, latency WITHOUT general means to reduce movement. Games in which PVP is a thing, Melee simply needs a way to reduce movement speed of a target. This isn’t a class balance thing, it’s instead a bandaid to latency thing. When the server needs a response from two player clients in order to check their positions and run a check to see if a strike will occur or not, it becomes a feat for the players to accomplish this on the move. It’s due to the several checks that must occur. There’s a several year old quote from a Blizzard (WoW) dev somewhere addressing this very idea. If a well polished game like WoW can suffer from position latency, you sure as heck bet ToS does, and having Melee receive the same bandaid would probably be wise.

Second, general collision and poor position checks. Somewhat related to the above but not the same core idea. This is issues like when a target is knocked about and due to bugs or the lack of constant position pings the target appears to be somewhere completely different. E.g hand knife causing a target to be stuck in air until it decides to move. Why isn’t there more position checks? And why and how is the game coded in such a way that NPCs and PCs can “stand” in midair. It’s just somewhat remarkably lazy coding (as usual). It’s not like it’s a certain area or specific scenario, this can literally occur anywhere.

Lastly, small AoE on attacks and small hit boxes for players and mobs. Now this is an actual Melee vs Ranged issue. The above are inherently less taxing on ranged if they are affected at all. But this issue breaks down to this, ranged has auto targeting, easy as pie landing most of their kit. it begs the question why are hit boxes so tiny and AoE on Melee so narrow (Double Punch anyone?). It’s a silly combination that makes combat almost frustrating. At least have a standard 180 degree cleave, Melee already has to stand face to face with it, AoE attack ratio is a thing so it isn’t as if they can simply capitalize on a large cleave without a significant investment in that stat.

Anyways I think that’s enough to get the idea. Some of it is bugs, but the last is by design.

10 Likes
#2

Yeah i wrote this in some post where ranger\wiz famboys cry because swords ask for buffs due to melles are underpower

#3

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

3 Likes
#4

Except Koreans hate archers in archeage. I played an archer there Q_Q. Funny thing is that it was also similar reasons why they sucked in that game as melee sucks in this game. For instance, snipe, a high atk skill shot in Archeage is completely unusable if there is a terrain altitude change from you and your target. Or if you were standing on a microscopic lump on the ground your character might be aiming into the air and that’s where the snipe shot would end up. Broken game mechanics ruin games :frowning:

Or maybe just lazy Korean developers. It’s almost like their goal is to make something so imperfect that it’s up to the user to fight the game to “play properly” it such an odd thing to see from a country so fixated in perfection. Koreans have a very high standard of trying to look and be perfect. Now apply it to your game and work ethics IMC

#5

slow down target - monk/diev can do that

i think ur a monk, at c2 monk is strong af. u will probabaly delete this thread when u get there xD

#6

Yea swordies are pretty underwhelming compared to wiz/archers. It’s ridiculous how much melee DPS classes are pointless. There’s really no point in providing us with a bunch different classes/job changes if the balance between classes is lacking.

#7

Monk2 is meh as fck in a PvP capacity. But that’s the truth for all melee. And generally where my post was directed though it’s a huge issue in PvE naturally as well. Melee just aren’t comped properly for having to be in the fray of things. Passive damage reduction or increased damage or utilities to close gaps and slow. These are melee NEEDS to be balanced.

Just follow WoW’s example please. They’ve had years to perfect their balancing philosophy to the point where they’re just tuning abilities to have classes within 5% of each other in DPS. I mean that’s literally their balance issue, an amazing issue to have. Because their classes have the proper skill kits to make some damned sense.

Swordsman should have slows baked in. Monks/Paladins/Other cleric variant melees should as well. Make it innate part of their swings or an added attribute to one of their core abilities or all of them.

#8

The ONLY two things stopping Swordsman from flourishing in PvP are Bloodletting and Stone Skin. Bloodletting is getting a substantial (PvP) nerf, so once stone Skin is down, expect to see a ton of Swordsman climbing the top 50. If anything, Archers need a buff before them for PvP.

1 Like
#9

archers dont need a buff, have u seen snipe? and if it also carries over into pve, then thats just broken. plus take sadhu as an example, if they buff up archer too much, they are gonna overnerf it, just like they did with sadhu, its just mmorpg history, every game has 1 op class that gets nerfed to the ground

#10

Snipe is amazing, absolutely, but the entire class tree isn’t just Snipe. Snipe probably needs a small nerf, while a lot of the classes need some buffs to be at all viable in PvP.

#11

well have you seen the rank 7 classes, cannoner has 2 skills that do mor ethan 3k BASE dmg on a 5 second cd… if anyhting it needs a nerf

#12

This game’s PVP is pretty terrible in general because it revolves primarily around being the first person to land an ability that makes your opponent unable to fight back, and then unloading on them - or, if you’re an archer and thus have basically no hard CC available, just instantly killing them with nukes (can’t fight back while dead either).

Plague doctor is OP because it counters the PVP classes that can just stunlock you to death, plague doctor and some of those classes (heyyo cryo) are being nerfed but that just changes who will be the most OP moving forward - psychokino for example isn’t talked about much but can CC-rape you just as easily and obviously cataphract impaler is a drive by kidnapping.

1 Like
#13

Yeah on Ragnarok, this games predecessor, half the ranger tree (Ranger) was pretty OP and irritatingly easy. The other half though (Performers), yikes. Worst characters in the game besides Super Novice, and Super Novices were meant to be hard mode anyway.

Melee needs more love, period.

#14

I get that it’s an issue, but IMO a bigger issue is

#commander load fail

#15

Melee or ranged are equally irrelevant in pvp tbh

1 Like
#16

There may be some solutions to that issue… As a monk I’m not double punching as much as I should on PvP because the hitboxes are so small, an archer moves faster than me and can kite me to hell.

Game needs:

  • More gap closing skills. Seriously, either a buff to movespeed or a skill that allow melees to actually get closer to their targets
  • Any way to lock your spells to your target, so that they cannot be cast if it will not hit the enemy’s hitbox.
  • Jumping is so annoying because the jumper’s hitbox is actually below him.
1 Like
#17

archers don’t need any kind of buffs at all they can literally one shot a person in PvP due to the developers having brain damage and making their abilities have 600% damage scaling ontop of 5000 raw damage you monkey and the class also receives bonus critical rating from DEX and also gets % crit rating bonus from just having a single archer circle and all their weapons be it one or two handed have great stats and aren’t even rare to acquire

3 Likes
#18

Agreed with the points presented in the OP. I can’t speak for PvP, but in PvE melee classes are severely handicapped due to poor monster hitbox coding and pointlessly narrow skill hitboxes.

Another issue with melee classes that regularly flies under the radar is the lack of mobility while dealing damage. The main damage abilities of most melee classes require them to channel or have animations that root them in place. This is at odds with this game’s PvE encounter design, since many regular mobs and almost every boss has a knockback or some form of melee-range CC (sleep, stun, freeze).

1 Like
#19

Exactly. One of the few savers of Melee in most other games is their mobility or at least ability to deal damage on the move. In this game, ranged has the ease of dealing damage while mobile while Swordsman have a few select ones and clerics have none.

Odd to have ranged able to Z attack while mobile and melee not. That should be completely opposite

#20

Melee hitboxes are just too small for PvP…