Tree of Savior Forum

Make (all) skills scale please?

Suggestions Game
#1

I see a lot of complaints about early classes feeling weak (or useless) compares to later ranks and I whole agree.

Easiest fix? Like every other game with a clue, have every skill have a flat damage and then do additional damage based off of the appropriate stat.

For example: Blessing (priest skill) could remain unchanged as a skill, but remove the flat bonus for investing in the upgrade and have it add 1% spirit per rank (50% at Max).

This prevents the skills from being too powerful initially while keeping them relative late game.

Of course for other skills you would want to apply the correct stats, such as strength, attack power, int , magic attack, etc.

With the ability to invest both skills points and money to improve skills just adding proper ratios will keep skills in balance both early and late game.

Final and somewhat off topic note. Adding or moving classes to earlier tiers would encourage more player diversity and unique gameplay. Would really appreciate more than 2.5 choices at second rank. And if everything scales and remains relative it wouldn’t hurt to redistribute the ranks.

12 Likes
#2

No. Old skills should become obsolete.

To avoid becoming another mmo with 12 rows of hotkeys that we rotate through because every skill you get is now viable. That is not what this game is trying to be.

Take advantage of the current system that makes multipliers rare. Build your class around them to maximize their value if you care about damage so much.

EDIT:

Skill scaling just makes content easier. If game content difficulty were to stay the same, then monsters would also get harder. Then all the scaling you gained was pointless. You just see higher numbers for the sake of seeing higher numbers. Now it’s harder for support classes like tanks to train and everyone has to leech or glue themselves to a dps.

1 Like
#3

The problem with that is that it creates an extremely overcetnarlisation over classess with better buffs and flat damage modifiers, which is the reason behind the whole Highlander-> Barbarian deal, Barbarian’s skills have amazing bosuses for how early you get it and highlander has that insane atribute that adds 50% to your critical damage with two handed swords, which results in all the Barbarians we have in the servers.

If skills scaled this wouldnt be an issue as your stats would make more classes viable which invites people to try more classes creating a bigger variety of builds, and honestly you REALLY have to do it on purpose if you end with ‘‘the 12 rows of hotkeys’’ in this game, like, really.

#4

Not true, because if all skills scaled, so would hibarb’s skills. It would create an even greater imbalance. Besides. hibarbs are only good from 15-160 in a game that has a lv-cap of 600.

Plus, hibarbs are good because of their attribute, not because of scaling skills. If anything more classes should have a similar attribute to theirs.

With 10 ranks, 4-8 skills in each rank, you can realistically get 60 skills which would result in 12 rows of hotkeys.

#5

First of all changing skills to an scaling system bould trigger a complete rebalance of the skills in the game, on top of that they would affect stat distribution due to their new state in which they depend on your stats instead of most of the builds relying on full DEX.

Yes, Hibarbs fall off hard late, but do you think they care?
Do you think most care?
Do you think they can’t work around it?
Corsair is a fantastic option to go from Barbarian as it’s DPS sinergises amazingly with Barbarian’s self buffs on top of silly things like Toy Hammer & Arde Dagger.

Yes, you can get 60 skills doing that, but will that build be good?
Will that character be able to completely fullfill a role in a party?
Will that character not be absolutely outclassed by a more specialised build?
I said you need to try to get that many skills, and you delivered giving an example of how you it’s possile to get that many skills in an very unlikely scenario.

#6

Actually, it’s the base damage on Barb skill being really high.
I mean, at rank 5 their skills have bonus attack of over 1000.

That said, most of them are low hit count skills (Seism and CARTAR being the exceptions), meaning as your character gain more attack power (level, better weapon, etc) these skills start to even out, and eventually lose out to skills with high hit count like pretty much everything from Pyro tree or Hail from Elem in term of total damage.
Still, most enemies do not have enough HP for Swordsman to care or for Wiz to shine, it’s when you fight thing like world bosses that thing become apparent.

#7

Suppose a player went base-X3-Y3-Z3

That player would have 28 skills. 4 from base that don’t scale and are worthless, 8 from X that don’t scale and are worthless, 8 from Y that are pretty bad but sortof okay, and 8 from Z that are probably less than optimal.

Look at this other dude, who went base-A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I
This guy has somewhere between 40 and 80 skills. Virtually all but the last 12 gained will be worthless in endgame, aside from specific instances of stellar quality.

But there will be instances of stellar quality. Unless things change, wizard3-linker3 will be the only build there is, because those skills scale no matter what. You’ll coast though early game in groups and then start picking up damage skills super late game, because taking earlygame damage is a pointless detriment.
So our wizlink has Quickcast, for the 50% damage boost, Lethargy, for the 100% boost to maces, Joint penalty for dat damage spread, hangman for the gather, buffsharing, and stat sharing. All of those skills will always be useful, no matter what the last four jobs you pick are.

Another thing. Daino is a requirement. If you are the only Cleric in your party and you don’t have Daino, you are physically holding back your allies, because over the course of their character they have collected a ton of buffs. Heck, is it even possible to build a party that doesn’t hit the buff cap somewhere? I already see it happen in every group I’m in at level 50.

The skill system is seriously messed up to anyone who thinks of the destination, and not the journey.

5 Likes
#8

Agreed 100%.
And if the scaling of the skill increases with how much points you put into it (say, each point gives +10% scaling), then a pyromancer circle 3 fireball (with 15 points) will be significantly stronger as the game goes than someone with only 5 points on it (and he can still consider himself a pyromancer in the late game, if he wants to). So the optimal choice would normally not be picking as much classes as possible, but getting circle 2 or 3 in some (IN YOUR FAVORITE ONES!, beacuse most would be viable at any stage of the game), thus not creating a sea of hotkeys.
Of course it must be balanced in a way that both investing in a class and in multiple ones feels like a valid choice. I’d suggest making sure investing in one increases your dps by a lot, while mutiple ones giving more utility, versatility or more elemental advantage or something.
But the more I think of it, the more unlikely it seems they would implement that, since it would need tons of class, skills, monster changes and pretty much everything. If they didn’t started to do it by now, I don’t think they would (I believe the KR community did gave some alike feedback before, luckily they listened already).

1 Like
#9

This is fine. Scaling in C2+3 but not C1 skills is acceptable.

1 Like
#10

Yeah, they could even just slap it as an atribute for C2 adn in C3 you can level it more.
A lot of atributes could use that system for that matter cofcofTwohandedswordmasterycofcof.

1 Like
#11

Maybe add a scalling when the skill is mastered

#12

It’s already discussed. As we can see on this doc the scaling is already in the game even if you don’t see it https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U_QNAKRSgKNN3K8LDRaDgBq8JFqnT51dvPqXpULFZkg/edit?pli=1

#13

Where do you see scaling on that document?

Just look at warrior skills. Virtually every single one of them deals ~2x auto attack damage, except for special cases like Stabbing that deal a massive amount.

#14

It’s not hard to see that archer C3 Multishot is very good even if archer is rank 1 class. Same can be said about early classes Pyromancer and Krivis. Your main point was saying that earlier classes skills become useless later on. And this document proves that they clearly dont. Also it’s not warrior it’s swordman. And everybody is complaining about this full dex barbarian ■■■■. Thats only good because of overkills and falls off after 150+. We can also see on other people videos that fulldex barb is useless at pvp and can’t compete in bossing versus something like druid or wugushi.

#15

I like this one! Hope it gets implemented. :wink:

#16

I’m not sure what you’re arguing for here.

Some skills do scale, but many, many skills do not.
That lvl 150+ Barb is pretty much a perfect example of a class that dies because its skills don’t scale whatsoever.

Multishot, Fireball, and Zaibas are scaling skills becuase they gain a % of damage for every skill level, and tend to have a very high total %.

Multishot is (autottack+skill damage)xskill level. fire ball is the same, and Zaibas is (autottack+skill damage)x(5+skill level)

and then Flare and Full draw are auto attack+skilldamage. Note the lack of an x. Note how every guide out there says ‘never take Flare, it is worthless.’

Flare, and other skills that deal a single hit to a single enemy should gain a flat value and a % increase, just like multihit skills do.

#17

Zaibas is a bit more cheating skill than that - it double dips from int and is a multihit skill and has an attribute enhance from a friendly linker and can hit flying monsters.