Tree of Savior Forum

Linkers in instanced groups

Class and Rank
#1

Nearly every instanced group will require a Linker to start, with good reason: their skill set amplifies the group’s damage too much.

Linkers are a support class, but compare the possibilities of damage enhancement with any other support classes (like Krivis or Priests)? Not to mention that wizards still deal a lot of damage on their own, unlike other supports.

I know badmouthing DEX Barbarians is the thing, right now, but even 1 single rank in Linker already gives a group damage beyond any other class can hope to achieve… hope this class gets balanced before launch.

#2

You’ve got confused a bit.

Wizards deal misserable damage on their own.
The only real way to deal damage as a wizard, is to have linker in your setup.

Ever wonder why every wizard class requires you to have linker? Because its pretty much a prequisite for the wizard class, or else it just has a horrible experience even leveling on regular monsters.

Nerfing the linker would further destroy the weak as it is wizard class.

Make a wizard and play it a bit first, before you start spouting nonsense on the forums.

Wizards and Archers are in a horrible spot right now, they need a total overhaul and INT as s stat needs to be entirely rebalanced aswell. Because when you see a lv150 wizard that deals about the same damage while being full INT or full CON, then you know there is a problem.

EDIT: Also, are you really whining that a support mage class is making your life easier in dungeons? Mightaswell whine about Clerics that they can heal and buff, lets nerf that too, because why not, it makes dungeons that much easier!

10 Likes
#3

ahhaha i like your Edit XD

Anyway are wizard really that weak? i did one… she is only 103 atm but , i find it easier to lvl with her then with my barb…

I mean when i resetted full int damage went up a lot, before i was spr con and some vit.

i still have to reach high lvl its true, but is really that bad?

for now… lvling my pyromancer without link class was easy as breeze O_o

#4

Linkers are a bad class for the reasons you outlined.

They are the best circle in the game. 5 points in linker will give a mage 5x damage, and give all of their party members 5x damage, no matter what level the linker is.

Really. Once a mage takes linker they can contribute to a party of ANY level. People talk about going wizard C3 for the 50% damage boost, when linker c1>3 is a full 100% damage boost? To every player nearby?

Its insane.

I’m going to go Pyro-linkerC3-Alch, and I’ll be the best party member ever.

#5

When people start to think that having a certain class in their build is a “prerequisite”, it is a sign that this certain class is probably too strong.

I agree that wizard classes are pretty weak right now, but Linker in comparison is probably the single best class in the entire game. Imagine if you can take Linker in all the other class trees, it would be linker everywhere.

I think Linker is great and what they can provide is fantastic, but I have to agree with the OP here. The problem from what I can see is that Linker is an one rank wonder. Almost every wizard I have ran into in this beta, who chose Linker, only have 1 circle in Linker. Joint penalty at level 5 can satisfy the need in most of the situations, plus having hangman’s knot at circle 1 is just the icing on the cake.

My suggestion would be to decrease the power Linker get at circle 1 and make it so that they will have to invest more circles in order to be overly powerful. Say for example:

Currently enemies chained by joint penalty all take 100% of the damage dealt to the primary target regardless of skill level.
Change it to -> At level 1: Chained monsters will receive 30% of the damage. Each level increases the damage by 5%. So at level 15, chained monsters will receive 100% of the damage.

This way not all wizards will just get one rank in Linker and be the most powerful support in the universe.

Above all else, other early wizard classes really need some buff.

1 Like
#6

Well, its kinda bad. Pyromancer is probably the only mage class that isn’t a nightmare to level.

The damage is low, the SP consumpion on Wizards is ridiculous.
If you google up Wizards in TOS, you will see a lot of threads complaining how weak wizards currently are.
As it is, any class, even cleric, has a easier time playing through content than Wizards.

I’ve been playing Cryomancer>Linker and i’ve been hitting like a wet noodle without linking, literally linker would make it possible to do anything , without it, feels like there is no damage at all, compared to other classes that just breeze through content with much ease.

1 Like
#7

Its good but then again it compensates for the other Wizard classes being bad.

If they would rebalance the other Wizard classes and make them viable, then i would have no problem with then toning down linker.

But as it is however, nerfing linker would make Wizards…well, not needed.

#8

this right here was the exact precursor to the hard cleric and barbarian nerfs

#9

Tfw I don’t have Linker in my wizard class because I think that I can always cooperate with another Linker.

But they never need a party.

Edit: If they need one, they don’t need another wiz.

#10

Maybe move link to another spot (C1 wiz), but keep hangman’s knot and the rest of the C2 and C3 goodies there (they are really powerful… trust me on this I’m not going to go into detail you can look it up and easily find out why), then give linker something to damage through the chain at low cd low reward but takes little sp so they have a compensation for their c1 ability being removed that would still make them a competing class over psycho. Just flat out nerfing the class wont help. And making it so you have to c3 it wont either because then everyone will just c3 it. That way it would still keep in tune with wizard and allow it to expand on things later… I also think wizard should have more c1 stuff in general with all that reliability on sp… such as a a form of exchange hp for sp that is just my take on it. (p.s. not only do I not play wizard I actually hate mage classes as a whole, however they really do need something early levels to deal with the lack killing power vs everyone else till they hit linker. Same goes for archer but that is another thread for another time.

#11

Aside from your childish hostility, you are right about two things, lawful3003:

-Wizards and INT must be reworked;
-Linkers compensate anything, since they bring too much power to a group.

Let’s be honest: Casting Joint Penalty + going AFK still brings more damage to the table than a full time extra archer or EVEN a extra DEX barbarian. How is that supposed to be balanced? How is that supposed to be fun? I bet wizards are not happy about being a 1 trick pony…

If they had lesser cooldowns, more damage and more sustain I’m sure evey wizard would STILL have 1 circle in Linker… because why not use bring al that power? This very thought undermines wizard classes as a whole! The point of having so many classes in the game is to bring very different things to the group, and this game is excelling at that. The Linker concept is awesome! It just has too much power.

I don’t have a high level wizard, as you must have, so I cannot comment on how it should be better to empower it, but I know one thing for sure: Linker must be dealt with, if any other wizard build is to see the light of day.

1 Like
#12

People forget that Wizard cooldowns are pretty big, so they can’t spam magic a lot and their auto attack is single target and has a terrible damage and it is really slow to cast, not to count the sp problem, and classes like pyro have problems with aerial mobs because of the fireball cooldown and hit rate. The linker helps a lot in that function, making their skills more usable and the class more reliable. If you guys want to nerf the linker class, first they need to buff the other wiz classes trees. One good way of nerfing is maybe linker c1 joint penalty only works with the user skills and then it keeps being buffed to work on parties in later ranks.

2 Likes
#13

Hey there.

First, let’s be honnest, every class need to be fixed (at least in some part).
This CBT2 has been a Swordie’fest all along (running twice quicker, aa much quicker, dmg insane).
I’m not sure it’s good to point fingers, that could end with a lot of debate and some nerf_axing.

Someone mentionned that, a linker, with JP lv 5, is already a huge boost to your party in itself. Alright, i do agree with that statment, tho i don’t possibly see why you want to ruin it.

These days, people want to nerf everything, that’s not the only way to fix things you know.

If wizards were doing a great amount of dmg (what should be done by a mage dps build), linker wouldnt have to be a must have, because having another DPS rank would be better. Therefore, people would consider making the sacrifice for it, or not. Atm, there is no such kind of sacrifice, as ranks dont provide much to this class.

Instead of nerfing the C1 Linker, i would empower the C2 and C3, to encourage people go support this way (a little boost in C2 but mostly C3 tho). This way, instead of nerfing it and preventing any linker to have a good experience during leveling, it will create a desire for a proper mage support, creating more diversity. Such a class would be a really must have in party, i agree, tho it would be a pain to level up, so it would deserve to be that good at the end.

Thing is, ToS is in birth state, don’t nerf things to balance, improve others to make every build, every combo, a viable and interresting sollution.

That is what i believe in.

2 Likes
#14

It’s better to nerf everyone to the same ground, then buffing them up. Buffing everyone to an OP state will only create more cries everytime they got nerfed (and harder to decide what to nerf as well).

#15

…and also generate Diablo 3 levels of Power Creep.

#16

Not as if other class really have problem in dealing with the map now. It’s just the unfairness.

#17

Your logic doesnt make sense at all. If you want people to go c2 or c3, the c1 should be nerfed and the c2 strong as c1 and c3 stronger than c2. One circle in Linker you are ready to go, just like how barbarians take only one circle of the highlander for the cartar stroke.

#18

Well, Linker has too much magic amplification. I believe they lower all the stats, but probably didn’t lower the magic amplification. And I agree to above, where people may need to invest in higher level for their skill.

I think the biggest issue is the nerf in stats overall, and I guess Archer takes the biggest hit on DEX. Regarless, I believe all stats scale/efficiency has been nerf, so they can balance high level (100 stats in vs 400 stats in), but that does not scale in low level. They may also increase mana consumption based on damage, which means higher INT or STR requires higher CON and SPR, otherwise, I am not seeing people invest on CON and SPR.

I think there should be a stats discussion, as the issue is not the classes itself, but it is the stats balance (particularly low stats effectiveness vs high stats effectiveness).

#19

Iv said this over and over on the forums nerfing 1 or 2 classes is easier then buffing 40.