I wouldn’t mind that they come without stats… They could always add the stats later on (like months after release) if and when they realize no one buys it, as some form of marketing…
I think no stats are fine… I’m all for it… Just make them pretty and cute plox… =P That’s all that really matters…
That’s a fair point but I personally feel if they maybe ask us for what kind of mounts we want to see and poll us, or spark the discussion between us they can get some ideas.
We know some people want actual horses, dragons are a straight up given. I mean come on, WHO doesn’t want to ride a flipping dragon?! The fact they can be mounted without mount skills is also a huge bonus and incentive to buy them. Wanna move faster or look cooler? There you go… Sure you can’t fight on them without the skills but that’s fair.
My opinion is coming from someone who is willing to pay money for convenience but also against PayToWin. I understand there’s people who don’t have money should be able to be as good as someone who is willing to pay money because I’ve been in that situation before. I’ve heard of arguments for people who have no money and no time (e.g. students), but I feel most of those arguments are very weak. This is an MMORPG if you’re playing it you already know this is going to take you a lot of your time to be ‘the best’. So, as long as a FreeToPlay Player can get as good as a Paying Player (Pay For Convenience Player) then I am okay with it.
When I say Pay For Convenience, I’m talking about paying IMC to save the PFC Player time. This could be paying IMC for things like EXP tomes, dungeon resets, etc. This things save the PFC Player time, where a F2P Player would have to work a little harder or wait. Both can do the same things but one would just have to wait or work harder. I am totally okay with that. As long as it’s a time factor. My argument here is because for F2P Player is either choosing to not work during some of the time they have to give IMC money or not able to find work to do so. Which I believe they should be happy this game is F2P in the first place and they are able to reach the same end game and maybe even be better than the PFC Player. I believe IMC deserves money and PFC is a great way to achieve that. I would even be okay with buying silver directly from IMC (I am against gold sellers because this money does not go to IMC and I hate bots!). However, finding the right price would be hard because the market is always changing so I think this would not be achievable. Any way to support IMC and keep the game balanced is good with me.
Anyways, moving onto your opinions about the current systems.
I agree with most of you here but I feel these stats have a huge effect end game because when it comes to PVP or GVG every little thing counts. Lowering the price of the scrolls isn’t what I would suggest though. Instead I would like them to increase the Free TP limit to 7 and the Free players will just have to wait longer to get them. But, if what hallowedthings says is true then I think things should stay the way they are. I like ideas that glorify being in popular and strong guilds because it motivates people to compete and improve.
I completely agree with you. Premium mounts should only be for show UNLESS they can be sold in the market to Free Players. If Free Players are able to obtain an item without paying IRL money, I think it’s fair game. This also goes for the enchant scrolls if they become trad-able/sell-able then my previous statement about the Max Free TP increasing would not have to change. However, I like the idea about them increasing top guilds Max Free TP.
Very touchy indeed. My opinion about this though is that since F2P Players can buy this from PFC players then I think the current system is okay. If you’re a F2P player and want to be as good or better than people willing to PFC then in my opinion you are probably willing to work harder than those PFC players. I think being able to get a ‘premium access’ without actually paying for it and buying it with in game money is a great ecosystem. It’s almost as if the F2P Players are working for IMC. They are giving silver to the players willing to PFC.
TL;DR
If everyone can reach the same end game and strength eventually then I think the system is okay. What makes it good or bad is the time difference it takes for F2P and PFC Players. The smaller the gap the better.
I just came up with an idea for the top guilds. Instead of increasing the Max Free TP they should, depending how often the Guild War happens and what rank the guild is, give the top guilds actual TP per GvG (or once a week, or once a day). This makes it so they can eventually buy things on the premium market.
We don’t need to give the top guilds an even bigger advantage I don’t think.
I actually edited some of the original post due to feedback in this thread but as a player with similar ideologies as yourself I mostly agree. However I’m also driven by a “Fear” that pay2win starts small, hardly noticeable and then it starts getting massive and game changing. So some of my suggestions on top of taking feedback from others is based on my own fears as I’ve seen this happen to other games and it led to the company milking it until it died.
I still think personally a pay-wall shouldn’t exist at all, just focus the Token on convenience anything a free player can do a token player has a slightly easier time doing.
I’ll go into more detail about my opinion about the token then.
I agree with you for the most part. I would like them to actually increase the size of the storage a little for everyone (without the token). Just make it easier for everyone to transfer stuff. It’s more of an annoyance when you’re doing it 1 by 1 and there is no plenty at all except the time it takes.
What I would like to suggest though to make it more appealing for token users is to add the loss of potential again when putting into team storage. But, for token users remove this. Of course keep items that not trad-able unable to be put into team storage, such as quest items.
I agree with you about the brutality of this. Even the wait time to receive the silver is brutal. This is probably a way to stop gold sellers but I would definitely like this changed as this is just wasting a lot of time for everyone.
This one I actually totally disagree with you. Being able to get Attributes faster or not isn’t much of a game changer for me. Even with the change coming, (I am a token user) I don’t see myself maxing everything because I don’t have the silver yet. I plan to get them all eventually but to max them all at lower levels is almost impossible unless you’re buying silver from the gold sellers. Also, you’re argument here is a little weak because being able to instantly get an attribute instead of waiting 10/20/30 minutes is also convenience. But, to be completely honest, I could care less if this is added or removed.
Again, we disagree here. As I said before, every small thing counts in PvP and GvG. It is small but it might make a difference between you dodging an attack or not. This is one appealing factor of the token. If anything should be removed it is this one.
Agree
Ehhhh? Lets discuss XYZ while trying to justify it in sneaky ways.
In PvP I rush against token-user against non-token user to position x. Who will be there first and in position? Everything the F2P can do to counter this advantage can be done by the toke player aswell…
+1 Buff slot…
୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨ NOW WE RIOT ୧༼ಠ益ಠ༽୨
J/K I don’t mind the game being p2w - I will buy what I need to level the playing field since IMC has to pay the bills and people have so little control over their spending habits that this scheme turns out to be the more profitable.
At the same time just accept the fact alone makes it P2W to a degree. Movement speed is not convenience nor are buff slots - it is power.
Premium pet comes out and has a tiny advantage again and soon they will drop the hammer on you. Embrace the level of P2W this game has or move on. This is a moral decision you have to make for yourself.
Why do people complain about this? It’s a P2P game where you have the ability to demo it. You can’t do a lot in WoW without paying either can you?
I didn’t have Token for the first few weeks, then I got token recently.
I have to tell you, to me the difference was MASSIVE. Without token I felt really sluggish but with the token MS I was literally running all the time. It’s not surprising as it is a 10% bonus. If you’re familiar with league of legends. It’s basically having a tier 1 boot vs not having one. For less sensitive players you might not feel it but to me it is a massive stat.
The only way to make this fair and keep the move speed bonus is to make it out of combat only. I know ToS already distinguishes the state between in combat and out of combat (look at the weapon positions), so this out of combat stat should not be difficult to implement at all.
That’s already the plan. Something like the top 10 or 20 guilds each week get a bunch of TP. It’s a perfectly acceptable incentive for guilds to be competitive.
In regards to the extra movement speed and/or buff slots being an advantage in PvP: I fully expect those not to be in effect during PvP. Maybe the buff slot, but not the move speed. And if they are, any particularly serious PvPer can grind to get a token for it.
The token system here reminds me so much of the VIP system on Dragon Dogma online, a Japanese MMORPG which I loved as a game but hate at the same time because of the insane benefits of the VIP system even though I personally got like a few of them. Btw, whether or not there will be TP gains, some guilds will still be really competitive because a lot of them made guilds just to go GVG.
Being a pretty competitive player I disagree with you about the move speed. If I can get even a slight advantage on other players, I will take it. I haven’t been able to hit the max buff slot yet so I don’t know about that. But what I do agree with is that everyone being able to get a token so I don’t think this is an issue.
[quote=“asphidel, post:31, topic:222669, full:true”]
That’s already the plan. Something like the top 10 or 20 guilds each week get a bunch of TP. It’s a perfectly acceptable incentive for guilds to be competitive.[/quote]
I think this is great but I haven’t seen any information about this. Could you link me to your source?
Fair enough. I honestly feel team storage should be expanded to three like I said while free players get one slot, with one slot it’d be extremely frustrating to transfer but at least you could.
I wouldn’t be against it but I can’t say I exactly support potential loss. Their whole argument for potential loss to begin with was as a precaution against RMT… Again though if Token users had three storage slots and free had one, token didn’t lose potential and free did that is better then what we currently have… so It’s really interesting. . .
The wait time I feel should stay at least while IMC is understaffed and a small company. It gives them time to view the validity of transactions… Although arguably it could be done better.
I still personally think it’s a bit of a game changer because in the end-game all you need is the money whereas the free player is going to be waiting days, weeks maybe even months to get fully upgraded whereas the token player is going to be done instantly. It’s a change I personally don’t like but if more players take your side on things I’ll be glad to change the OP idea.
Eh, yeah it is true… maybe what someone else suggested about the bonus only applying out of combat could work? The game already recognizes when you’re in combat and doesn’t as they stated… It is a power-incentive but I’m a PvE player who doesn’t really PvP so I never really thought of this as an advantage but now I see what you guys mean.
@CookyKim
I love your idea about changing the move speed bonus to out of combat only, in a way it still is power but it leans more to convenience this way then being straight up an advantage. I might rewrite the suggestion based on this because I think this is an amazing idea + I’ve been reading what everyone else said about the speed.
I said that I think move speed should NOT be in effect during PvP. Even out of combat move speed shouldn’t be implemented because that’s still a positioning advantage.
Ranking and rewards are near the bottom. It’s the top 10 guilds across all servers, awarded weekly.
Sorry, I misread your post.
And thanks for the link. I love the idea!
I think PvE advantages are fine. Since EXP tomes are acceptable, then it must follow that move speed bonuses should be okay. It’s only when they become so significant that it drastically alters the way that players play PvE, then it becomes objectionable.
You cut off the part of that post where I explicitly said PvP. But I mean, I was talking about PvP. I think the boost should always apply during PvE. I don’t really understand why anyone wouldn’t want it to or what justification there is for that?
Oh sorry I misread. I didn’t think of out of combat as outside of PvP combat, I thought of it as out of PvE combat