If those knockdown effects actually helped me more than they do not, I would not be even mad. If those sp costs are huge because of the knockdowns, then I totally wish they would cause less if I have the turn off attribute.
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spending into STR will not magically make EW good damage dealer. Since it was you who was claiming it would be good in STR, how about site your sources here and see if what you said is true.
Paladin isn’t that weak, I beat a SR and a monk on boss dmg in one of dungeon runs for 170.
So, 496% x2, is better than almost the same damage without cooldown ? Conviction deal also less damage than 2 of the Monk skill + Monk has 2 DoTs and also 3 different damage multipliers. With the same stuff, that’s absolutly impossible that Paladin reach superior damage as Monk. Even versus demons where Smite deal x3 damage, it looks complicated.
But most other rank 6 skills don’t have +8 AOE and/or a knockdown, except Doom Spike but that has a longer CD.
Swordsman rank 1, 3 knockback without charging time, less cost, less cooldown, faster execution. Any Cataphract will have Bash 3, so, you really think that they want more AoE damageless when they take 3 rank of Cata ? Or you think that’s legit to take a class just for a single spell lol.
“Better damage than Pouncing” … Yeah,you compare Rush, to another very, VERY bad skill.
I have a Lancer, with C3, i just use trot and impaler, sometimes rush with restrain 1vs1. But doomspike and Earthwave ? no no, bash better, that’s all (fun to mention that a R1 skill level 3 has better DPS than a R4 skill level 15, but yeah, that AoE ratio justificate everything xD).
Cataphract is intended to be a bursty mobile melee class, not a clown.
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What?
If you’re trying to deal max dps you’re going to use them one after another right? E.g. Cleave->Crosscut-> Skyliner x5. That was my thinking behind it anyway.
And having a wizard use lethargy, a thaumaturge use buffs ect. boost damage which would help with Cata’s low damage problems would it not? Or have circles which are good as single target dps?
DPS is a form of offence but it doesn’t encompass offense (It’s the best form in PVE game, but it’s not the only form). If Sw3Cata3 isn’t really cutting it for PVE DPS then surely that would mean it has not been built correctly for PVE DPS by your logic.
x 1.33 is not exponential and even with max guardian are you reliably taking only 1 damage anymore? No? I also didn’t know we were gonna bring unbalanced PVP into the conversation, regarding a PVE clip that’s supposed to show how bad a skill is at bursting down a boss when it’s kind of obvious that the skill’s main purpose isn’t bursting down a boss…
No but it will make it better than that 2 second video.
Never said that.[quote=", post:11, topic:362169"]
Swordsman rank 1, 3 knockback without charging time, less cost, less cooldown, faster execution. Any Cataphract will have Bash 3, so, you really think that they want more AoE damageless when they take 3 rank of Cata ? Or you think that’s legit to take a class just for a single spell lol.
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That sounds more like a class path problem than a problem with Cata. And that basically sounds like the reason people took Doppel for DOV + Cyclone a while back.
All I did was compare 2 (/3) very similar skills in how they worked…
EarthWave 15 is at least 3 times stronger than a single bash and will hit more targets than a single bash so it’s more situational than bash. Do you A. Charge up Earth Wave/Doom Spike when you know there are a group of mobs ahead or B. Know that there’s a group of mobs ahead but decide that you’re gonna go up to them and go through bash’s animation a few times?
quote=", post:11, topic:362169"]
Cataphract is intended to be a bursty mobile melee class, not a clown.
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Really? I thought it’s role was: “Cataphracts use two-handed spears. They act as cavalry who break through and scatter enemy formations.” or at least that’s what the class description; on this website; says it is.
Guys, I know I cut myself off here:[quote=“valkren9, post:4, topic:362169”]
Ok to be fair I’m not saying that Cataphract is in a good place dps wi- Wait… You’re using a cripple… at level 330… with a full dex build? You got dragoon’s + damage to bosses attribute again right?
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So I will try saying it again:
Ok to be fair I’m not saying that Cataphract is in a good place dps wise. But with the added abilities, the skills have with the new formula for Skill% that they derived here, Cataphract doesn’t really fit very well with the current model.
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Dafuq? My main is Pala3 Inqui, and I do more damages compared to a MetaMonk3 Inqui. :3
[quote]
If you’re trying to deal max dps you’re going to use them one after another right? E.g. Cleave->Crosscut-> Skyliner x5. That was my thinking behind it anyway.[/quote]
Lancer do that with crush and quintain combo and Lancer is the natural advancement of Cataphract meaning whatever Lancer could do with its skills it would synergies well with Cataphract. Do Lancer have charge up skills? Lancer doesnt have overheat? All those people who main Lancer knows how well it synergies with Cataphract and that Overheat is already happening with our natural advancement. Youre the only one who think this overheat pause or stand still would get in a way with cata.
No, it would boost more on Dopple than a cataphract would do with thauma buffs. Example on a party with thauma + Falconer, dopple and cata. A dopple having those buffs will boost his damage more than a cataphract would do and in a race with DPS a cataphract will fall behind by huge margin.
I lol so hard at this. Read again what you wrote youll find it funny too. Anyway, how does that in any way related of Cryo being defensive and yet could sport huge DPS margin than a cataphract could do on our current state? If a cryo could be offensive and defensive why a cataphract cant do that too?
Thats why we are telling you that a cataphract could be decent DPS before the update. Right now it is not like that anymore.
So where do cataphract shine then? Mobing? If you admit that Cataphract is not meant for bossing where do it shine then? Killing power of EW, DP or rush on mobs is below average compare to other classes.
The point is that it would still suck. Why would it still suck even though you recommended to build high STR?
to
huh? Lose one point onto another which invalidates the previous? Ok. Cataphract =/= Lancer they do their own things. Cataphract “break through and scatter enemy formations”, Lancer “uses strong anti-personnel skills”. Here’s the build you recommended for PVE Lancer right? Lancer may be a progression point for Cataphract but the same could be said for the other way around. We don’t know what skills lancer will get in future circles.
Isn’t that an argument for Doppel + Non-Doppel? And not just Cataphract? Or better yet which does more damage: Full support Thauma + Falcon + Doppel + Other DPS or Falcon + Doppel + 2 x Other DPS?[quote=", post:14, topic:362169"]
Read again what you wrote youll find it funny too. Anyway, how does that in any way related of Cryo being defensive and yet could sport huge DPS margin than a cataphract could do on our current state? If a cryo could be offensive and defensive why a cataphract cant do that too?
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Nope. Can’t see it, must not be that funny. An attack to hinder an enemy is still offensive, but in terms of gameplay DPS is faster hence the name. Cryo offense is based on a skill with CD over a minute and requires the combo of 2/3 different classes, that is burst damage, which for some reason we are comparing to just cataphract…that I find funny. Cataphract doesn’t have any cool combo like that, maybe Lancer C2 / 3 will have some e.g. a skill that does more damage on knocked down enemies.[quote=", post:14, topic:362169"]
The point is that it would still suck. Why would it still suck even though you recommended to build high STR?
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I meant it wouldn’t be an uber boss slaying skill with investment into STR.
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Getting from point A to B with a swordsman and being decent at mobbing if I must sum the class and not the entirety of the build. Which for some reason we seem insistent on doing.
Nothing that has been said up till now was about before patch, just that the class isn’t doing much in comparison to other classes, while shade’s being thrown my way, insinuating that I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. The closest that has gotten to comparing now to the previous combat system is using Earth Wave 15 which used to be great but is now outshone by other skills.
Cata and Dragoon need serious rework for sure, no matter how you try to defend it, truth expose itself. You know that spears on the market doesn’t sell even put it on half of the price as before right?
I’ve tried many builds through the reset event, Cata is trash compare to Highlander and Barber, and Dragoon is trash compare to Corsair and Fencer. I’ve never loved spear jobs but I have to say “buff them” so no one else can whine about nerfing other classes.
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catacombs pike for 500k lmfao
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cata pike was always a hyped up trash imo…even before this rebalance…
but even 500k may be overpriced right now, considering I got a 315 2h HG spear for 700k a couple of days ago.
You missing the point sir, but keep trying to sound cool, you going into the right direction haha
sorry got carried away. yea 2h spears dirt cheap now cuz the class sucks.
Semantic. Assuming Lancer have overheats that do not get in a way with Cataphract it also means having over heat on Earthwave will function the same way. Thats why your “stand still” is false.
Your argument is that “EW dont need an overheat or buff because it has +8AOE attack ratio and very fast cooldown”. which is false because lacking AOE attack ratio like that of dopels can be fixed with good party composition. Thats why fencer is viable in ET if you coupled it with 2 linkers/chronos. Can you do that with Cata? partying it with damage buffer like that of thauma to fix catas abysmal multipliers? If yes you can present here a proof of doing end game contents with Thauma + Cata carrying as DPS.
Thats why, because of that Cataphract is severely underpowered compared to example of Cryo having offense and defense. Lancer future dont matter because youre not a dev and arguing about something that is not tangible yet.
Yes thats why Cata is left in the dark with other classes that have uber boss killing capabilities. Same can also be said when it comes to mobs kill speed.
Yea, thats why tell me which PVE Cata shine on then.
[quote]Nothing that has been said up till now was about before patch, just that the class isn’t doing much in comparison to other classes, while shade’s being thrown my way, insinuating that I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about. The closest that has gotten to comparing now to the previous combat system is using Earth Wave 15 which used to be great but is now outshone by other skills.
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Im not throwing shades at you but questioning your argument on Cataphract. Cata being underwhelwing is tested already. Sure you can make the class great with extremely good investment like Trans 9 or higher. However that can also be said to other classes and with the same investment, Cataphract will fall behind against them.
tickle wave needs a buff.
p.s. hahahaha that was with +25% strike damage.
Playing cata pve haha xd das funny meme
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Catas best dmg skill is double slash untill R8…
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And anyone who’ve tried lancer should have the same feeling, it’s an uncompleted or rushed out product. All skills except for the dashing one are just a single thrust animation. By looking at the animation itself you can’t even tell which skill is which. It is boring even tho it is strong.
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im using +10 cripple. but whatever. my corsair’s hexen dropper level 5 deals more than this. my double slash deals more damage than this. who the ■■■■ cares about 8 aoe attack ratio and knockback when im equipping x2 gladiator bands. also the SP cost takes as much as 2/10th of your total SP. still havent answered the question why they have to charge cast cata skills when they’re all useless.
When you are a cataphract 3 and your main skill its double slash you know that there’s something wrong with the class 
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Most of the charge and “character locking” skill like cartor strike, catapharant skills, pounce etc. need buffs. IMC in remake didnt calculate well the dmg the skill should do, but at least they tried.
Basicaly imo all skills that lock you in place/animation should deal 50% more dmg than burst skills of same caliber for each second they lock you.
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