Tree of Savior Forum

KToS General Thread v5.0

You misunderstand me, what i mean with game is unnecessary challenge is not only for tos, but all game in general too, because apparently you and the rest of the world civilization who dont play tos can continue living on without defeating legend glacier raid hard under 1 minute, hence game count as unnecessary challenge. Doesnt matter whether the form is personal skill or stat check, that definition still hold true.

People (and my secret flagger) take this game a little too seriously like live or death situation.

It seems ktos player not protesting regarding that deleted BG at merchant badge, so good luck adapting to that.

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Maybe you just don’t know enough p2w player in this game. But hey, I did mention you can try hard or get lucky hundred millions drop to be on top.

Ye casuals just have to accept that bg no longer available through mercenary badge or fight for it like other did outside this thread.

Karaliene Isgarinti accessories nerf when

More like Fix, Isgarinti is supposed to help do AoE damage, not double single target damage. Way too powerful when it shouldn’t be.

It’s really not that hard to make both skills useful through ARTS.

Turn Muleta into a buff with ARTS that makes Faena always deliver the maximum number of hits with crits dealing 50% more dmg while doubling Faena’s SP consumption.

The trade-off thing isn’t really an issue, if you’re creative and make the related ARTS useful while not have it to hard of a drawback.

Is there any changes to Nak Muay art ? wonder how it works in the end

I’m happy to have another offensive art for Plague Doctor, but a lot of these arts are quite undercooked and poorly thought out in execution.

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By the way, i was checking the Epee Garde modifier with the new art. Epee Garde basically ends up like a Sharp Spear - they end up with the same final damage modifier. They probably wanted to make it so rapier and spear classes had that same final damage modifier in that comparable skill, before giving rapier classes the same mastery bonus/increased attack other classes had got previously for free.
Yet again, it’s just plain stupid on their part to make changes upon such a direct comparison. Hoplites give more than that - they also give a crit rate buff and a debuff that further increases spear damage. Dragoons further increase spear damage with helmet and dragoon fear. Even their vaivora further increases damage versus bosses.
Rapiers have nothing like that - there is a fencer art at most, it increases only fencer skill damage, and requires to be on front of the enemy (along with a large damage penalty if you aren’t). Matador has got a damage increase when aggroing. That’s it. You lose the aggro to someone else? Well, too bad, you’ll be lacking damage for the rest of the fight (cause you aren’t getting aggro back when you deal even less damage). The enemy moves around? Enjoy your damage penalty since it isn’t in front of you (and if you lose aggro due to that, well, see above).
And the annoying thing is…the other classes don’t have such drawbacks and still deal the same or more damage. They’re far better versus multiple enemies, and comparable or better versus bosses. So what’s even the point of fencer/matadors? What are they supposed to do, by design?
Dealing with multiple enemies? Clearly not - almost all skills have got small range, low AoE ratio, or a limited amount of targets.
Dealing with bosses? Could hardly do that versus doppels; versus dragoons there isn’t much to do, they have got too many damage bonuses (more than a fencer, without any drawback of sort).
Mobility? Laughable. Especially when other builds can use their skills while mounted.
Better defenses? Neither, can’t use shields with epee garde new art and a dps couldn’t use it even before - shield defense is nullified by epee garde and block effects are nullified by offensive rapide. So it’s the same as any other offensive classes. And Muleta requires you to be hit to counter, so can’t even go for the evasion route if you wish to reduce matador cooldowns (necessary to keep up olè).
Better crit rate? The only thing matador excels at…but meaningless once you’ve capped the crit chance. Useful right now because we don’t even have all the 430 fixed ichors, probably less useful later. Finestra provides a sizeable bonus as well with a third of the points required, anyway.

So, in the end, what are rapier classes supposed to excel at? It’s not an AoE attacker. It’s not a mobile attacker either. It’s not a boss dealer - they gave that role to dragoons already, be it with attack bonuses, debuffs or straight boss damage bonuses. It can’t be a critical attacker either, since it gets the same cap as everyone else, and the crit rate bonuses aren’t so comparively so high either, despite the high points requirement. The new epee garde art also directly goes against it, as it significantly lowers crit damage compared to before, making the rapier classes even less reliant on critical hits.

So, what is the general plan? What do they mean for rapier classes to be? Do they even have a plan to start with? Cause right now, frankly speaking, it seems like they’re grasping at straws at the best case, or deliberately sabotaging it at the worst. That’s the only reason that can explain some of these choices.

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IMC should bring back this skill to cryomancer

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That’s literally the absolute state of fencer since this game was released smh

I mean Rapier is very strong for a 1h class. Since you are comparing it to Hop/Goon I’d like to know what the 3rd class is. If it’s Retiarius, the only true 1h spear class, then Rapier wins with 2-3x the damage every time. Hoplite/Dragoon/Retiarius has down time in its skill rotation and mediocre burst times relying around a vaivora. Dragoon and Hoplite both have seemingly insane buffs but in practice in a max art Retiarius I promise you the DPS is lackluster.

Seeing as the comparison seems to be against lancer as that has the high DPS vaivora for bossing, IMC has long since decided 2h is PVE meta and 1h can cram it. Until we have something like double attack for 1h or a way to give up shield def for some attack bonus, 1h is in the gutter with maybe the exception of rapiers.

they already implemented this to Frost Pillar, the skill used to be just the frost tree with pulling effect, when they added damage they merged their effects.

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Eh, i doubt they thought of Retiarius as a pure dps, due to the CC and dagger guard. Fencers can’t even properly use a shield due to skills and attributes denying defense and effect, and the new art will even explicitely require a dagger. So while one-handed, it provides the same defensive measures as a 2-h weapon user…as in none.
But yeah, i was more thinking about lancer and dragoon vaivora in the comparisons.
And they did give the dagger mastery to fencers with the new art…except that it largely cuts down epee garde final damage effect. It ends up with the same value of sharp spear, basically. As if they wanted to say “they’re giving them the same effect of one-handed spear mastery, so we’re giving them the same final damage bonus of the spear buff”. And if that was the logic behind the art, well, it’s utterly stupid. Since this is only one of a plethora of bonuses a spear build is based upon, but the only reliable damage bonus a rapier class gets - epee garde:nobility (soon fencer:nobility) depends on boss positioning, matador’s banderillero depends on having aggro, and both can be negated by other players’ actions; worse yet, they’re also exclusionary; only one person can have aggro at a time - meaning, all the other matadors will deal less damage, and that’s something other builds never have an issue with; likewise, in cases where only one people can tank and be in front of the boss. fencers will have to disable nobility and miss out on an important damage bonus…and that is, yet again, something other swordsman builds have no issue with. Having multiple fencers/matadors shouldn’t be penalizing, but that’s just how it ends up by design.
And even when you’re alone and despite a gameplay that requires to pay attention to where the boss is facing, countering with muleta to reduce cooldowns, dodge with backslide to reset paso doble to do a bit more damage…here comes some dragoon/lancer or doppel/bb that just gets aggro and you end up being unable to compete since your damage bonuses are gone (and they weren’t as good as theirs to start with). A lot of jumping over hoops, and for what, if it doesn’t even end up being rewarding?

To be honest, Matador is a trainwreck as it is. You can play it well and chain counters, paso doble, backslides to reset paso dobles…and while you exert yourself somebody else will just use one or two skills and put your damage in the shade. Olè requires too much points even if right now is the only saving grace of the class, and the only reason there isn’t much complaining about it (well, aside from rapier users being mostly extinct) is because the rest of the tree is terribly lackluster. Backslide raises evasion - not by 100% despite its own description, luckily - but evading prevents Muleta from successfully countering. And even Muleta scales quite terribly, along with a bugged attribute (doesn’t give the 10% bonus at 100 levels and the art enhance doesn’t work at all). Capote’s accuracy/evasion debuff is useless, and leveling it only raises that debuff duration by 1s per level. Faena requires a ton of points, it’s clunky, the damage is unreliable being a random amount of hits and even in the best case, with that SFR it will still be bad…and the only way to increase its damage - a certain crit effect - works only on beasts. Does more damage to large enemies, and back then it meant bosses too, but not anymore, so it’s moot. And then Corrida FInale, that despite buffs still can’t hold a candle to other classes’ final skills. Relies on aggro for banderillero damage buff, but cannot do nothing to prevent other classes getting aggro anyway.
It was a terrible design even before, but it only got worse with time. Aimless and outdated. Increases evasion, but can’t properly work if you ends up dodging. Requires a lot of effort for little rewards. Provides a fairly large crit buff if you spend a large majority of points…but then you’re unable to properly make use of it due to crit chance caps. Can reduce accuracy and evasion for a time…but then there is nothing where such reduction is actually used with. And most of the damage skills are fairly bad. Requires aggro to deal more damage, but you would need damage to get aggro to start with (and prevents other matadors from doing it, too).
Throw it in the bin, decide a concept, and follow it closely this time.

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Thanks for linking the video. Dunno if it will be useful, but it’s something we could test in the future.
The issue is…what to remove to get nak muay, and if that double magic damage taken won’t end up being too harsh. The uptime may not be an issue - Ram Muay; Warrior decreases Muai Thay cooldown when critting with basic attacks or skills, so it could end up as full uptime if you crit enough.
Remove matador, and you lose crit rate and a bit of damage buff when you aggro…to get a larger damage buff and lesser crit rate bonus.If you end up with enough high crit rate, it may be worthwhile, as long as you can stand the added magic damage taken. Matador doesn’t offer much right now outside of crit rate, after all.
And it’s probably the better choice, as removing barbarian means giving up some good damage skills but most importantly, large damage buffs and a bit of defense decrease. You would get a ton of crit rate instead…but it would go wasted due to the crit chance cap.
So the first choice probably works better. And the added magic damage taken could be ameliorated by taking some evasion gear, since there isn’t the issue with muleta anymore.
Then again, only time and tests will tell.

I made a video of all Archer new Arts. For those who are interested, please take a look!

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i havent played your video, but i have a feeling after i saw it i still wake in the same nightmare again:
-tomahawk ART nerfed -60%
-downfall ART need 15 level to be cool, and even then, still weaker than triple arrow+ triple attribute

my hope is re-shattered again


it comes sooner than expected to itos!

they are going to add other ways to obtain blessed gems or we are ■■■■■■?

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IMC says : buy TP :tired:

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