Tree of Savior Forum

kTOS General Thread (keep all in-game discussion here)

General Discussion
#3220

No doubt when compared to another QS.

Why don’t you tell me which archer job you think can beat a high ping trash QS? I ask many members here, but all insist QS are thrash with bad ping yet unable to name me another archer job which can beat a thrash ping QS. Remember a QS arrow is already 300% dmg lol. That is how serious the problem is. When people first claim warriors are OP, that is strictly becuz of skyliner(which does 100% against bleeding on 0cd)

This has more to do with the skill balance, which a lot already observe since icbt. Dmg skills are pretty much worthless if they ain’t % or multi hit. And still worthless even if it multi hit when the cooldown is 120s trash.

It is ok for QS to be top in dps, but it is another matter for QS to have a % attack and other damage job are using constant as skill damage and/or retarded cooldown value.

#3221

I think the point he’s trying to make is that an archer + support-linker is going to be fastest at clearing content in the game outside of really fringe scenarios. And that’s just kind of what happens when you mix highest single target DPS and mix it with 100% dmg propagation.

You know though… You rework Joint penalty and people would probably be fine with it. Reduce the single target damage propagation and re-add some of the old AoE propagation(from back when it doubled AoE dmg). Could be as simple as joint penalty shares 50% single target damage between links and 25% of AoE.

It would still be best support skill in the game. And every Wizard would still want it. But swordies could be in a group with one and not be completely outclassed by the archer. And they wouldn’t draw pictures of their swordsmen hanging from trees.

#3222

I wish it was thursday/wednesday’s patch so we could speak about something else now lmao

12 Likes
#3223

I agree fully… I think this conversation should just have it’s own thread…

1 Like
#3224

You guy are forgot the fact that QS is a Defensive class, I don’t think it’s a good idea to give a above average DPS skill to a class that should to be tanky instead of a freaking tank on steroid with a crack on top of it.

1 Like
#3225

Time for a new kTOS Thread.

4 Likes
#3226

I understand your mixed feelings about buff limit changes…but it rly needs work. On the other hand of course it shouldn’t be the easiest solution possible.

I think it would be already rly helpful if your own buffs couldn’t be removed from yourself by others buffs.

But I would go much further than that…because I think the buff limit sux in PvE too. I know most ppl would stone me because of this because no one seemed to like my Krivis thread either but I would open up the basic buff limit to 10 and move Daino to c2 to only have 10 max level. Daino would still remain a unique skill but would be much less mandantory. Also Krivis should get a new skill too that way.

@jochris Yeah I agree with the Mackangdal suggestion. I think its duration should be halved in pvp and it would be ok. But I actually wouldn’t let Safety Zone negate its damage…or it should somehow count the hits you get and only reduce that much damage if you know what I mean… But I actually think Mackangdal should mainly combo with Revive and not Safety Zone… X) but maybe I’m a biased Priest.

1 Like
#3227

Tell me, if you play a Wizard, are you planning to use a single skill against boss and then stand all day waiting for 120s cooldown?
Even new players know that they will cast another skills and stack all the damage.

After they cast Pole of Agony, they can cast other skills like :
Dark Surge, Mastema, Flame Ground, Fire Wall, Fire Pillar, Hail, Frost Cloud, Psychic Pressure, etc (depends on the build they take before they reach Warlock).

I get your point that Archer has consistent damage throughout the fight, but you must not forget that Wizard can use multiple skills at the short amount of time.

And my point is not to show that Wizard’s damage is stronger than Archer, but they can compete with Archer in terms of damage. If you do not understand this part, then there is no need to continue the debate.

5 Likes
#3228

Let me translate it: ‘if you are not an Archer and still want to dps, play another game’

This is the new notion of balance invented by overbuffed tos archers.

3 Likes
#3229

Tell me, if you play a Wizard, are you planning to use a single skill against boss and then stand all day waiting for 120s cooldown?

Even new players know that they will cast another skills and stack all the damage.

But an old player like you forgot to cast the archer skills? Just stand around cast multi shot every 18s? Sometime it really amaze me how high the level of irony is.

My point then is unless skills are relatively close both in terms of cd(not 18 vs 120) and value(not % vs some constant value), it is unlikely for wizard to be able to “compete”

In fact, for a skill with 120s cd, you actually expect it to be doing more dmg(as in dps) then a shorter cd skill. Meaning to say balance wise, even after spamming a shorter cd skill everytime it is off cd to match the cd of a 120s, the accumulate dmg shouldn’t be greater.

100k dmg on 100s cd
50k dmg on 50s cd
10k dmg on 10s cd

You will think all 3 are equal, but 10k dmg on 10s cd is always the superior skill. So in most game, the 100s cd skill will be doing say 120k dmg to “make up” for the long cd.

1 Like
#3230

This is retarded. You do know that auto attack CD is a thing right? So no, you will not shoot 2 arrows per second if you have 500 ping. More like 1 arrow every 3 seconds.

2 Likes
#3231

Huh? So you think a 500ping QS will suffer from auto attack CD, but a 20ping QS doesn’t?

#3232

It’s in English already.

1st You do not need to translate English to English
2nd That is not what it means at all
3rd Remember that DPS is a stereotype, not a “role” in TOS. In TOS, we have 80 roles. Not goddamn 4 stereotypes.
4th Like what I said, think deep. Whine less.
5th Mercy this thread

1 Like
#3233

I’m in favor that someone create an archer topic (or a balance thread, i don’t really care), and we flag as off-topic everyone that keep spamming about it here

~.~

2 Likes
#3234

What are you smoking? Everyone has auto attack CD. But with a ping of 500, the transfer rate from you inputing your attack to the server and then input into the game takes 25x longer than a 20ping character. I’m not saying that a 20ping character can attack 25x faster than a 500ping character but the difference is way bigger than you think. Also, you saying that doesn’t help your case. Because it just makes your argument less valid by acknowledging the fact that there is auto attack CD.

1 Like
#3235

If people flag, the ktos thread will be closed.

#3236

Anyone know if mackangdal has synergy with revenge sevenfold?

#3238

On the contrary, you are the one who is wrong.

The “cd” you mention is to prevent no delay attack. Thus hacks that can bypass this limit mechanism is known as no delay attack hack.

A 20ping user will be restricted by this cd, because a 20ping user is “fast”

However, if you are a 500ping player, the cd “doesn’t apply”. This is because your 0.5sec delay is way longer then the “cd”, thus you already cooldown and is ready for the next auto attack.

A player with 500ping is going to have any input he issue happen 0.5sec later.

A player with 20ping BUT package lost is going to lose his input command(the commonly known “my character isn’t responding”)

I suspect those players that claim QS is trash with bad ping doesn’t understand the difference between latency and package lost. A 300ping is merely 0.3s delay. Sure your arrow are shooting slower(at a 0.3s rate)

However those players must have bad connection in some way or another, and package are actually lost. Thus their arrow hardly ever fire. Couple with bad ping, you can easily see how these players are not going to be shooting out arrows as QS. Eg. A 300ping QS fires an arrow. Notice no arrow, tries to send another auto attack input, which takes another 0.3sec. If your auto attack input is lost twice in a row, then you will only see an arrow after 0.9sec later.

#3239

I never said I would not cast another archer skills after I used Multishot, didn’t I? But you did assume that Wizard players won’t deal another damage for 108 seconds with your statement. :relaxed:

Then tell me, what would Archer players do if Wizards can have very similar, same, or even better damage than Archer?
Ask IMC to nerf Wizards? Or change their class to Wizard? Or stop playing while whining to the developer on this same thread?

That’s why, in order to make things more “balanced”, Wizard’s skills have longer cooldown than Archer. They may not have the strongest damage for a long duration fight as you said, but does it really matter? Wizard is not a strictly damage dealer class in the first place, different from Archer. Imagine if Wizard can do CC and deal damage as strong as Archer with short cooldowns, people will abandon Archer.

And I stand by my point that Wizard still can compete with Archer in terms of damage. Even you have admit yourself that in the first 18 seconds or more duration, Wizard will deal much more damage than Archer against a boss.

Even if the boss didn’t die right there, the amount of damage Wizard can contribute to the party is still considered very high. That’s all that matters.

This would be my last reply to you as this is really going off-topic.

@cloneart123 you can still play a DPS Wizard and do great, However, don’t forget the design of the class itself doesn’t force you to be a strictly DPS class. Just because you take Thaum c2 or c3 doesn’t make you a support class because you can still take classes like Pyromancer, Warlock, etc. The Thaum’s buffs will increase your damage potential even further. Never compare yourself with Archer because you are a different class with a different role.

And as a Swordsman player, I would love to have both Wizard and Archer in the party. Especially Wizard, since they have tons of AoE damage and synergize well with Peltasta’s Swashbuckling.

When you use both, people who attack you first will get hurt from your revenge sevenfold first.

1 Like
#3240

Hmm? Have you played archer during the beta? How can you prove your theory?

1 Like