Tree of Savior Forum

[Klaipeda] GTW Test Attrition and General PVP Balance

I already have the title but would like to provide general feedback about GTW this go around and PVP at large.

  • Team Name: Narcissus

  • Character Name: Csiko

  • Class Build: a2 sap1 scout2 fletcher1 musk3

  • Comments:

First and foremost, the specifics about GTW:

Mouse mode is a huge problem now on the territory maps. Any ground target skill completely lags out and gets stuck in a location and cannot be moved from its current location onto a player. This is both on and off the point and needs to be fixed urgently, as certainly classes rely on these abilities for damage.

Map balance is still pretty okay, though there is still too much incentive on capping a point in the last 5-10 minutes of GTW.

Lag was also a much bigger problem this time around, despite the fact that far fewer guilds participated on Klaipeda.

Rather than talk more about GTW itself, I wanted to actually bring to your attention a much needed PVP balance changes in general, as I think that GTW can’t be fixed until some of these core issues are addressed.

Rethink any skill which delays the inevitable. Any skill where a fight cannot possibly happen because everyone is immune to damage, or the fight is so one-sided because one side lacks those immunities in any way. Group PVP right now is like getting Rajapearl in Bernice’s: You are either killing it instantly, or you are standing there waiting for the immunity to wear off. Except, imagine that every single fight in PVP/GVG, for 100% of the time.

Here are some specific thoughts. A lot is missing, and I’m sure many may agree or disagree with some of these. Some may have already been announced as fixes or some may be in place now, or some things I may be forgetting altogether, so forgive me. Open to further suggestions as well so please post things you strongly agree with or disagree with. If we want GTW to be successful, PVP must be better balanced.

Crowd Control

Hard CCs: Crowd control which completely prevents all action from the target. Includes stuns, sleeps, disables, freezes. Should be broken into 2 categories:

Rank 1 Hard CCs: Max duration 6 seconds, for all circles which are below circle 7. Diminishing returns drop 2 seconds for each subsequent hit within a 2-minute time frame.

  • Impale
  • Wizard Sleep
  • Freeze
  • Stone Curse
  • Telekinesis
  • Stop
  • Coursing
  • Raise
  • Iron Hook
  • Telepath

Rank 2 Hard CCs: Max duration 3 seconds, for all circles which are circle 7 or higher. Prevent consumable use during these, but include a hard, diminishing return where target is immune altogether for the next 2 minutes.

  • Special Stuns
  • Special sleep (Piper, etc)
  • Iron Maiden
  • Friedenslied

Disables: CCs where the target can move, but not attack. Max duration 6 seconds, diminishing returns drop 2 seconds for each subsequent hit within a 2-minute time frame.

  • Silence
  • Disarm
  • Blind
  • Any skill with a combination of these (joust/lacrymator/etc)

Roots: CCs where the target can still attack, but not move. Max duration 3 seconds, with a diminishing return that drops by 1 second for each subsequent hit in a 2-minute time frame.

  • Shadow Fetter
  • Magnetic Force
  • Hangman’s Knot
  • Greenwood Shikigami
  • Heavy Gravity
  • Rete

Damage Outliers that Need Rebalancing

  1. Spirit Shock: Shorten duration, add a diminishing return for duration
  2. Dimension Compression: Disallow moving after charging but shorten cast time
  3. Cap other single target nukes at 77k

Preventative Measures

Debuff immunity skills, or buffs which are incredible strong and need rebalancing.

  • Bloodletting: Hit cap is necessary akin to prophecy. Cap at 2 hits per skill level, max 10.
  • Revive: 3s duration per skill level (remove duration attribute), 3s max invulnerability. Same target cannot get revive more than once in a 2-minute period. (This fixes PVE content being a joke too).
  • Ein Sof: 30s max duration
  • Melstis: Does not apply to revive, mackangdal, or ausrine
  • Ausrine: Remove the counter-clockwise rotation requirement but turn it into a small ground circle about the same size as the 3 circles are now.
  • Disenchant: Give any other class type something similar (bodkin point would be an elegant solution to the archer meta being very “pick up musket/piper or don’t bother”)
  • Sterea: Make this a magic circle or otherwise breakable, or add hit count/shorten duration

Group defensive buffs like this in such a way that only certain combinations of all defensive buffs can be on a target at any one time. For example, if revive + ein sof are up, bloodletting overwrites the first of the others which are cast. Max of 2 of the “best” defensive buffs, or 4 of the “adequate” defensive buffs (stone skin, prophecy, missile hole, things of that nature). Buffs which are not defensive, or self-buffs, should continue to have no limit.

Buff Sharing: Honorable mention here; either remove ein sof and bloodletting from being shareable, or halve the duration of all buffs which are shared.

Misc Suggestions

  • Cloaking: Make it break on debuff application as well, not just damage.
  • Tree of Sephiroth: Halve the healing power and damage reduction in PVP, reduce circle size, increase CD, but make it unable to be detonated or reversi’d. Other possibility: Add a target cooldown so that the same person cannot gain the benefits of this skill more than once in a 1-2 minute period.

Long Overlooked and Needs Buffs

  • Growling: Pets are far too squishy and also obnoxious in PVP for other classes to deal with, but a pet casting growling should have some very high defense modifier to prevent it from getting oneshot by someone breathing on it.
  • Physical Classes Without Inherent Block Pen: There are too many to list here, but they need some love too.

I don’t want GTW to die before it even gets off the ground, but so many on Klaipeda aren’t participating and it seems like many find PVP to be frustrating even before taking people’s crazy gear or guild participation numbers into account. Please consider some of the suggestions.


They need to disable Dispellers and Charms for GTW because it makes Plague Doctor’s Bloodletting and Oracle’s Prophecy completely useless.

Or give those items a CD for each one used at least.

Thank you, this was another one I forgot to mention.

I would be okay with them weighing a ton, or have some kind of internal 4-5s cooldown.

1 Like

Fix mouse mode please!

Getting the spot taken in the last 5 minutes after 40 minutes of having it feels really bad, but I’d have to admit that we stood no chance against the attackers no matter how they went about it.

1 Like