Tree of Savior Forum

Keep the game a challenge! Too many "casual gamer games"

General Discussion
#1

Every video, class update and bit of information IMC has given us is honestly amazing, I and I bet many of you guys have waited years for a game like this to come around again. A game that’s unique, full of new ideas and even in closed beta looks amazing because it’s so different compared to our mainstream-easy to win-mmorpgs and I truly hope it stays to its roots and isn’t being made solely for the causal gamer.

There are tons of mmorpgs where you can grind to the max level in a less than a couple days, lazy people soak in the instant satisfaction and eventually this destroys the game because everyone’s maxed out and the game is played through too easily. I can’t play nearly as much as I used to, but I still appreciate a game that requires effort.

There are too many mmorpgs without consequence when it comes to building a character as welll. You choose a cookie cutter, the pre set skills are handed to you with no variety, and the staleness kicks in hard and again… All for the casual (thoughtless/lazy/undetermined) type of person to easily play through. Games sure have changed…

So to sum it up. I hope this game doesn’t follow the mainstream trend to appeal to people who easily give up or only play for instant satisfaction. Games were much better 10-15 years ago because they had consequences and repercussions for decisions the PLAYER made. This created variety, this pushed people to try new things and actually created a community where people had to work together, people created forums and clans and groups to share information because beating the game wasn’t handed to you like it is in so many games today. All I hope is this game brings back that nostalgia of actually needing to put in effort in a game, and the developers ignore all the pleas to make it easier, shorter to grind and more like other (failed) RPGs people keep referring to.

Just some random thoughts :slight_smile:

What do you guys think?

15 Likes
#2

I’m sure you’ll find your stance in here, somewhere.
The moral of the story is that “Your opinion is always bad”.

For anything that you think, someone will give an alternative.
The best you’ll get is arguments, name calling and the occasional flag.

7 Likes
#3

Personally, I prefer the game difficulty not too hard nor too easy, just keep it interesting enough for everyone to enjoy the game content on a longer run. If the game finishes too fast, it’s gonna be boring anyway.

This is the internet after all where others opinion doesn’t shine the most as yours. Wanted to win an argument with an open minded but not realizing their brain is falling out. The reason why light travels faster than sound - in which people appear bright until they speak.

#4

All the developers need to focus on is keeping the game interesting and fun. They shouldn’t be focused on any sector of the playerbase, casual or hardcore, since that’s favoritism and favoritism never ends well.

6 Likes
#5

The amount of grind one does, does most certainly not equal difficulty, fake difficulty sure but anyone with a brain larger than a peanut would tell you real difficulty comes from challenging combat.

Just because someone can spend hours on end doing the same repetitive task of killing brain dead mobs, doesn’t mean they’re good, nor does it mean it’s difficult. It’s time consuming, the only thing that makes them any different from “casuals” is how much time they have to waste on boring, unchallenging tasks.

Cookie cutter builds have been around for a long time, it’s not restricted to modern games, if anything they’ve been around since the first mmorpg, easy builds that give the most for as little effort as possible, far more common and definitely around way longer than you think obviously. Back then it was just as easy to correct mistakes as it is today, next to zero consequences for anything.

3 Likes
#6

Well lets hope it will not go the way of ff14 .

#7

it’s popcorn timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

1 Like
#8

I dont see nothing wrong with FFXIV, except some elitist players that can ruin your fun.

2 Likes
#9

Its a ok good looking game.95% of it is over the to easy.you have 0 cherecter building.all the rest is ok.

#10

I will kind of agree with that… The skill floor is very low in FFXIV… When you’re bad, you’r freaking terrible, you’re less then useful you’re a waste of space. There is very little middle ground between raiders and the casual players in that game. You take a raider and put them all bad equipment and toss them in the normal dungeon’s they’ill still find it laughably easy. You take an average player and put them in a raid and they will be the weak link that is impossible to carry.

#11

You have 15 - 60 brain dead dungeons so people never need 2 know how 2 play.any time se added any thing that have mechanics in it all 80% ± just cant do it the same way theydid so much dungeons befor.its a problem se created they encouraged stupidity fro the players.win a boss that cant kill you aslong as the healer heals andget loot. So i really hope we dont get this + way longer grind.

#12

Indeed, even RPG books were better than many MMORPG’s. But i still love improved 2d/3d graphics.

#13

The thing with grind is that it eliminates some character builds, such as a tank, since you need to kill fast. I can totally see full support characters getting kicked from parties too. However if the optimal exp would be gotten from instanced dungeons every sort of build would be needed all the time, but that won’t be happening I guess.

#14

Well in the case of FFXIV. Last I checked… 16 people in the world have been able to learn and complete the current raiding content. I’m currently on content that less then 1500 have finished. Out of the million or whatever gamers that play. Most of them wont see the savage content till months down the road. The step under raiding is all laughably easy. And even casual players will cap out well before new content is released.

Here is my thought. Some people might point the finger at skill curve between high tier and low tier players being too high. I think that’s the wrong way to look at it. I think skill curve is great for your skilled community they love that stuff and ultimately they are fairly important for an MMO community. But… Here’s a thought. What if instead of strict item treadmills you get in FFXIV progression through equipment wasn’t locked up so hard on weekly caps on gear. And instead you could keep getting stronger in multiple ways. Like… I don’t know how ToS is setup. With Eve style attribute system for training… And crazy potential for gear and gem upgrades. It gets to the point where if you’re not godly player you can still either be loyal (always keeping your attributes training), or you can spend time and build wealth and get gear. So given a little bit of time someone that’s not a 1% gamer can still get to have all the same experiences when they invest themselves in the game they will eventually get strong enough to get through whatever content they want. And that’s not going to be a weekly cap that’s going to be when they have time, when they want to.

I like diminishing returns in how quickly you can acquire power… I think that’s ok… But I don’t like hard locks like FFXIV has. I don’t like how there are almost no options on gear upgrades beyond crafted which is only best in slot arguably for specific off tank builds for specific raid fights or potentially off-healer DPS that’s starved for accuracy and again only in very specific fights.

#15

In later content you need tanks and suports.you hp not just regenerate by it self.

#16

i hope for a game challenge like the old days ragnarok 2006 and those sexy magic auras

#17

As for now(dont see it change 2 much) the challenge of the game is not as ro and never be by the fact that you can move from all the attacks a boss can do.

#18

CASUAL. ffxiv casual will demand nerf bec they too lazy to do challenging content. look at steps of faith, nerf too hard that everyone now brain dead

HARDCORE. these kind of guy prefer to quit dungeon that hard or got newbies join the dungeon…or kick if the other member got low dps.

yes i play ffxiv and i know what i talking about

2 Likes
#19

I play as well.casuals like me dont want it all 2 be brain dead.i want each 10 or so lvls a dunjeon at the level of sof (original). There will be must 2 do mechanics and all roles must do theyr job good.tank have 2 do more that just tank ONE boss.dps need 2 do more complex things that dps adds.
As for hardcore there no such out of the one run for them.

#20

In terms of PvP be sure - they cannot nerf the gameplay of other players so you will always have a challenge.
It’s true that most games are far too simple to be true - you level up in a day and finish the endcontent in a week or two - done you get bored and quit some time soon.
IMC will make sure that this is not gonna happen.
The ICBT showed us probably 1/10 maybe even less of the stuff in the final version. They already mentioned that even the original World Map is larger than the ICBT one.
PvE player gonna have tons of dungeons to explore and probably other fun stuff wich the game has to offer - who knows what hidden classes can do maybe content we wouldn even dream of right now!
Even more PvE players gonna hype the class system simply because they wanna try different builds for their fav classes or maybe even tempted to try a complete different class to them.