Why do people think cata sucks? Is it because their attacks are weaker than double slash?
Look at the bright side. We still have a pretty great movement speed buff. Cata is still useful. Definitely not sarcasm. Cata is in a pretty good state.
How to cata?
3 Likes
Skills have very low % modifiers. No overheats. But the worst part is the lack of synergy with other classes/skills.
Even Double Slash can be improved by picking Barbarian 1 (+50% damage with Cleave debuff) or Shinobi (clones copy Double Slash). Double Slash also has 3 overheats and the attribute to crit a lot.
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Earth Wave is strike damage, and you canât pick Rodelero to boost itâs damage (Rodelero doesnât fit mounted class).
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Steed Charge has same issue, with even weaker damage.
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Rush canât be improved with Cleave or any other classes skills (except the upcoming Lancer Initiate).
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Doom Spike can be improved with Hopliteâs Spear Lunge but it has a very long cast time for the damage it deals (cast time is getting removed soon tho).
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Trot is a convenience, but nowhere near essential in a very dps-oriented endgame content.
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Being mounted kills a lot of your class options because many skills from other classes canât be used mounted.
5 Likes
With all the changes since the revamp, what do you think about shield fencers? as i understand epee only makes you lose the physical defense of the shield but if you equip an emengard shield it still gives a ton of defensive stats. Coupled with the lost of rapier aggression mastery, is it really that much of a dps loss? i donât see much shield fencers around these daysâŚ
If you pvp, then shield type should be good. The rest of the content is easy enough not to ever need a shield really especially since they buffed some armor defense last time on ktos (not sure). Rapier aggression is still decent boost. Higher skill factor + attributes + physical attack = more noticeable.
Thatâs exactly the reason why. If you head over to the corresponding Cleric thread, you might notice that the same happened with Kabbalist not being in a position it should be (i.e. at 1st or 2nd place) because many people already abandoned the Class previously to the patch and thus donât feel the need for a buff since they no longer think the Class is worth something in a build.
Itâs strange,though, Rapiers are by far the best weapons if it comes to one-handed combat because of the DEX and critrate bonus on the better ones(i.e. the new level 315 rare and unique Rapiers for 1-2 Practoniums).
Yeah for PVP I think having a shield is a must otherwise you die too fast, considering you spend a lot of time getting hit by raise, magnetic force, frozen, etc.
For PVE though, do you think Fencers do more damage than Hoplite Dragoons currently? Assuming both well geared (+11 315 orange trans 5 for example). Wanna see where fencers sit currently amongst the other swordsman builds
[quote=âGoldenCross, post:27, topic:366868â]
For PVE though, do you think Fencers do more damage than Hoplite Dragoons currently? Assuming both well geared (+11 315 orange trans 5 for example). Wanna see where fencers sit currently amongst the other swordsman builds
[/quote]â
hop dragons, is in a very bad spot because of the way that dragon skills are working; gae bulg that is suppose to be the burst damage of dragons are very bad because of the need to move far from the target; if you try to do sepertine>spearlunge> gao bulg you will lose a lot of uptime on sepertine+spear lunge, and if you simple forget about spear lunge/sepertine and just go for sepertine>gao bulg or spearlunger>gaebulg you will still lose some damage and time because there is not gonna be full debuff on enemies, and of course if you simple forget about it you would still be missing one of the highest dps skill of dragon.
Now on ktos there is no need to recover spear from spear throw, so i believe they want to make hop-dragon a more middle range type swordsman, where you nuke them from afar with spear throw-gaebulg-dethrone, but the problem would still be the same you still need to get close to use sepertine spear lunge, and if you simple try to sepertine>spear lugne> Spearâthrow3x>dethrone>gaebulg (since this one still loses the spear), the problem would still be there since you would lose debuff time on gaebulg one of the strongest skill.
This is just one of the basic problems that hop-dragons-catadragons and so on are having in gameplay/combo use, the other one is the lower % on their skills once you look at âthe animation aspectâ because mainly the hop spearthrow-stabbing/longstride/Synctru, hell all of them, takes too long to cast/use given the % that they posses; this would result again in a bad debuff uptime/management in the long run as well.
Mainly the dragon-hop problem is a mixture of animation speed x debuff management(and iâm talking about their own debuffs), this is the MAIN reason in my opinion and once you add the low % for their skills if you compare with other ranks 7-8 like fencers-doppel-murmilo , it simple kills everything all together.
Ps: dex speed does not work for hop-dragon, but even if they add it, in the Hoplite case it would not work, because the animation really takes too long and as someone who played it and have chars with skills that work with dex right now, the increase by dex would not really work for hoplite>>spearthrow simple have a â â â â animation.
so finally going to answer your question in a simple terms; YES fencer outshine hop-dragon easier in the damage aspect, even more since fencer skills with dex flies at the boss really faster, something too take in consideration as buff management now and in the future since the faster the skill set more skills you will be able to use in the future and now in the same debuff window.
and of course a few other things to take in consideration when you compare with doppel/murmilo: rapier 1-2pract are really GOOD, really dude, the 2 pract rapier is one of the best weapons in the game as one hand weapon, and of course extra damage debuff, remember people how the difference between 1h-2h weapon is 15% and 20% in the damage? the passive from fencer already gives you 15% and in this in the final damage formula so it more or less balance out the loss of damage given by enchant-trans , it is like using one hand weapon with 2 handed weapon damage, at least helps closing the gap of 1hand x 2hand weapon/classes and after all of that it is still not close enough to doppel, since even doppels should not have being doing the damage that they are doing and about murmilo: murmilo have a very stronger synergy with earlier ranks something that fencer lacks but i would still put him ahead in the damage aspect at least once we compare fencerxmurmilo as classes , but because of the synergy that murmilo as and until the nerf of their strike debufs come, it will still be ahead as well(murmilo one), but this does not means that fencer is weaker than him as class, is just that murmilo is being loved by IMC and the game have a lot of strike debuffs.
now; just a rant because well i have write a lot, and of course i had those chars and played them and this is why i wrote what i wrote, so i would like to rant because of the current situation that the dragonhop/catagoon is right now; is just BAD; before spear always stronger, and my favorite one catagoon at least had a place even without the meta build, but now there is so many disadvantage that is horrible to play them.
Thanks for the huge write-up. As i suspected, Finestra 15 is a trap for hopgoon.
So for swordsman this is what it looks like in PVE right?
Doppel >>> Murmillo > Fencer > Lancer >>> Dragoon
2 Likes
yeah pretty much.
there is a little more to take in consideration than just that,mainly gameplay for example but if we look at damage aspect âaloneâ the order is right if you use the ârightâ build as well , but again fencer and lancer are not at bad spot right now and works better as standalone class where murmilo really needs that synergy to shine so they(lancer-fencer) are more a âfreeâ as class where their synergy are not far off either and if imc keep doing what they are doing for fencer, it is still a stronger option because their toolkit is stronger and fast, and rank 9 may offer a lot for them.
in my personal opinion, spear had always a stronger and ahead of the line as swordsman, so in this rework they simple let it slide and what makes me sadder is that they are complete focusing paths for us, like the cata lancer and hopdragon, and this is killing the alternative catagoon build :(, and my mounted tank , hahaha rant again :).
1 Like
Stop. Calling. Them. âDragonsâ.
Anyways, I agree. Spearthrow would be nice if it didnât have to take forever for the animations. Gae Bulg is buggy. Sometimes you hit them, but they donât get hit. Sometimes you throw it, but itâs not there, and you still get the cooldown, etc.
I think lancers and goons should get their AOE hitbox widened, instead of the narrow hitbox.