Tree of Savior Forum

Int should do more than just increase magic damage

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#21

I feel like the stat issue is that we keep asking for each stat to be overloaded. There’s an illusion of choice in how we apply our stat points.

Look at Strength that provides Damage, Crit Damage, Carrying Capacity. Look at Dexterity that provides Accuracy, Evasion and Critical Chance. It removes choice for Swordsman and Archer. They simply NEED these stats and can reasonably ignore the others.

I do not want to see Intelligence add more benefits to casters. I really don’t think that Critical Damage belongs on Strength. I really don’t think that Accuracy and Evasion belong on the same stat either.

What should be happening is that for any given class, every one of the five stats must be viable. There should be a reason for a Swordsman to consider putting points into Intelligence because it may allow them to create a different build that is viable.

By overloading stats, we’ve clearly put the game on rails in a way that there is limited choice in how to distribute stat points. Food for thought would be something like:

Str: Physical Damage, Carrying Capacity, (something for casters)
Con: Max HP, HP Regen, Physical Defense
Int: Magical Damage, Critical Damage, (Cool Down Reduction? too good for casters probably)
Spr: Max SP, SP Regen, Evasion, Magic Defense
Dex: Accuracy, Critical Chance, Cast Speed

Every stat becomes an option for every class.

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#22

I see so many tricks in this game… So many things to make it seem like its more than it is. I really hope there is substance beneath all the tricks.

#23

INT is fine as it is, and if you really want to change it then take the Magic Resist from SPR and give it INT which makes no sense but yeah INT is fine as standalone, and even if you think adding new stuff like “better min-max damage” would fix that, only then you realize that it doesn’t fit the role with other classes and how they use there stats.

#24

Think about it this way, what if you eliminated the words “Strength”, “Dexterity”, “Intelligence”, “Spirit” and “Constitution” and instead every class could directly pile points into the sub stats. For example:

[ + ] Physical Damage, Carrying Capacity, Spell Cool Down Reduction
[ + ] Max HP, HP Regen, Physical Defense
[ + ] Critical Damage, Evasion, Magic Damage
[ + ] Max SP, SP Regen, Magic Defense
[ + ] Accuracy, Critical Chance, Cast Speed

All I’m doing is putting on the beer goggles, but now every one of those options feels like it is viable for every class.

#25

Why are you not ok with STR giving crit damage, but you are ok with INT getting it? This would blatantly favor casting classes since carrying capacity is just a convenience not a necessity to do damage.

You don’t want to have homogenized stats, you want people to have the desire to specialize in an MMO so they can form an effective team.

#26

That’s because following a lot of current discussion, spells do not critical. There are several threads where players have stated that they’ve played 60+ levels and never saw a spell critical.

Thus the thought for Intelligence is that it gives Swordsman, Archer and Monk the Critical Damage and Evasion. Caster Clerics and Wizards benefit from Magic Damage and Evasion.

If you just want Swordsman to have to pile into Str, Dex and Con, why even let them assign the points at all? Just let the game automatically raise the stats as they level up. What I’m seeking is real choice. If you want to get your damage from Criticals, you need to invest in more Int and Dex, sacrificing some of your raw Str. If you want to get your damage from Skills, maybe you can go raw Strength and then a little Spirit for sustain. There must be choices and the choices must be meaningful.

#27

The reason that you keep the stats open is so that people can experiment with ‘quirky’ builds or suboptimal builds. Not everyone wants to min-max, some would be content with building INT on a swordsman because maybe there is an item that allows them to cast a spell that relies on INT.

In RO I made an int-based swordie and used items and weapons to cast things, it was fun for fun’s sake.

#28

Everyone that thinks that Strength should provide everything a Swordsman needs to be effective wants to min-max. They’d put nothing in Int or Spr, enough Con to survive and Dex if the accuracy is necessary to hit targets. That’s min-maxing.

What I just described above would not prevent your int-based swordsman at all. In fact, it would maybe even encourage experimentation with such items. An example would be a crit based swordsman that had raised int for critical damage might invest in scrolls from a pardoner since their int stat is slightly higher. They could use Cure scrolls against Dark based bosses and fill in between scrolls while the damage is ticking using basic attacks.

My suggestion encourages players to spread their stat points among all stats as every stat will benefit every class in a different way. This is the complete opposite of min-maxing.

#29

I don’t think that Strength should provide everything for a physical class. They need a mix of Strength and Dexterity as well as a defensive stat like Vitality. The stat also has to make sense from a gaming standpoint.

If I had to boost int for crit, but I also knew that I needed strength and dex as well as a defense strat, now my offense is spread over 3 stats instead of 2. It makes building your character needlessly complicated.

I think that 2 offensive and 1 defensive stats is the right balance. A swordsman in current ToS may still find value in SPR to boost their SP gain and recovery in order to spam more skills.

#30

Using the same example, the choice is in how many points exactly you are willing to put into both STR and DEX. For some swordsman class combinations, going 1/8 (str/dex) would be best, for others it might be 7/4. For Clerics and Wizards, the choice is split between INT and SPR. For PVP and tanks, Con will come in to play for all classes, making things even harder to decide on.

Will all class builds eventually have cookie cutter “this is the best possible stat distribution” guides? Probably, but at least you still have the option to deviate from the crowd. I do know that people are going to have fun creating builds when the game is fully released and all the changes are set into place, and that’s the most important part that games like Diablo 3 leave out.

#31

Pff who needs SPR. I’m going full STR and CON Wiz… gotta smack dem mobs with my staff of power. I call it Excalibur… the long rod :smiley:

Innuendos aside, I really don’t feel that SPR is very useful for any class :confused: Like, sure it increases your SP, Regen, Magic Defense, and Block Penetration but, you’ll get most of that from levels and would seemingly be enough considering you’ll get a ton more magic def by just going Cloth, your skills will be on CD more often than usual unless you’re fighting for minutes on end which is just for grinding so not much, and I don’t see much equipment giving block and if it does, it’s a very small amount.

I mean if you want SPR and like what the stat gives, then that’s fine but I would appreciate an explanation as to why you like the stat because it seems very “meh” to me.

#32

Well, I watched a 100% INT wizard>pyro>linker farming at rank 3 and noticed that he had to use Energy Bolt over Fireball just to stay conservative with his SP usage, otherwise he would run out instantly. On the other hand, I had about 15 SPR at lvl 60 and rarely ran into mana problems, so long as I kept popping the cheapest mana pots.

Even running purely off of mana pots constantly would force you to spend your spells conservatively, and cost you a pretty penny.

#33

Do… Doesn’t Energy Bolt use more SP to damage ratio than Fire Ball? It uses like 27 SP per shot at level 5… Why would anyone spam that when it barely does damage (except for maybe the AoE factor)?

And I guess if you barely had SP problems even popping SP pots, that’s great :smiley: I however use campfires for grinding and SP pots for bossing and generally that worked out fine for me. Your way is WAY faster and efficient than mine but I like cost efficiency more than time efficiency.

#34

Magic doesn’t miss, come with the cost of dont crit.

#35

Yeah, I just recently learned magic doesn’t miss. I tested out a Wiz in iCBT but I didn’t really realize that everyone else was missing while I was hitting every time. But yeah, I was just wondering if there was ever a way to build a DEX/Evasion Wiz.

#36

Looks like it’s not possible to play Evasion based Wiz efficiently in Tree of Savior =/