Tree of Savior Forum

Infinite farming for exp, is really a good system?

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#1

Take moba’s as an example, one of the best type of games and more populated and famous. In MOBA’s (talking about league, but nearly the same for all) u have limited masteries and runes (attributes in TOS), skills, only 6 items, level 18 capped each battle… what does that mean? You need skill. Mastery. Get better at the game, improve. It’s difficult, rewarding. Because there’s a CLEAR and EASY CAP, this is important, EASY CAP. Until you reach your level 30 and u can full your mastery and rune page (here, buy all attributes), and u reach the max level, yea u are weak. But that CAP is easy to get. Maybe weeks, months if u dont have a lot of time, but u can reach that level and skills cap pretty soon. And this makes the game AMAZING. You got a cap. You have to improve in the game, because the others will be also in that cap.

What we get here in Tree of saviors? Go high, high level, level more. The more levels the stronger i am. Having like 600 levels (who knows), so gogo high and i’m stronger. I can’t beat this? More levels. TOS needs an AFFORDABLE level cap, so u reach the level and skills cap pretty soon, then it turns, not into a farming game, but a skill game. You can have duels with people etc

WHAT IS THIS CAP? My two cents… you do the game normally. When you manage to do ALL AREAS and ALL QUESTS that the game offers you, then you should be at max level, capped. THERE’S NO NEED TO FARM UNTIL INFINITE. You did all the content the game offered you, and it didn’t took years. Now you are at capped level and can have fun and fair coop and pvp.

At that capped point, you can still farm forever, but only to get epic item drops and materials to recipes. But having infinite levels… is really a good idea?

Take dark souls as an example. It’s nearly the same. There you can level till level 800. But, after you finish the story, and when you can reset the game to restart in a higher difficulty, u did all the content the game offered you, maybe 10 hours, maybe 50. Then you are nearly level 120. And u can STOP AT THAT LEVEL to enter into the amazing world of high level pvp and coop. The game died? never. WHY

WHY DARK SOULS NEVER DIES

Because people have infinite class combinations to do a lot of characters, so we can make characters that reach the cap (lvl120) in some hours, after finishing the story mode… then we dont have to level to 800 to be strong, but master and get better at the game to face other levels 120, cause capped.

TOS is the same. You could repeat the story again with different classes. But you have your main classes capped.

Dark souls, after 10 years, is still played
Even dark souls 1, having 2 that is better, both still played all this time… and people agrees at lvl120 cap, or nearly

what do u think?

#2

A few words for you after this wall text, its a CBT, not OBT neither release, its intended to be like this for TESTING purposes.

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#3

Your comment makes no sense at all. Besides being a general stupid idea to say “its beta!!! duhH!!!” to everything, in this case he was talking about the core game design, and there is no way that this changes after beta.

@player_great Hey man, I get what youre saying, alright alright. But get real, no MMORPG, specially Kr or JP style, will never be just like this. They attend to a specific audience that still likes the PvE aspect, grinding, hunting, farming, etc. I could ellaborate more on the game design level, but that is just pointless, I can assure you that they will never completely rework things as youre saying. **NEVER. NO CHANCE. **

Now, you might be sad, but don’t! I don’t know if you made a research, but the PvP arenas will work a little different from Ragnarok was (closest comparance we have to this game). First, it will be 3v3 or 5v5, and having rounds. So this already gives a better aspect.
Second, everyone gets to choose from the same list of pattern equipments, therefore, the biggest advantage people had on Rag, +10 weapons and cards, will not happen here. Every swordsman has the same sword, etc.

Lastly, about level. I don’t know exactly how they did about this on the other CBTs, but I’m pretty sure that it also woudnt happen to be lv200’s facing 100s. So maybe they can (or already did) separate the arenas on level range (1-50, 51-100, etc). Or just make the people have all the same level when entering the arena.
Or maybe the arena is opened only at max level, what I would be highly against, but just saying HOW IT MIGHT BE.

#4

Yea, arena where everyone is changed to the same level it’s nice…

But yea, there you have… oh, a good weapon! Wait, after 20 level its sucks, ill need another. Oh, AMAZING WEAPON! Oh, it’s for lvl40. At lvl75 ILL NEED ANOTHER. Same until infinite. Dark souls? EVERY SINGLE WEAPON is worth on it’s own. Yea, you have to upgrade it, also infuse with some element if u want to, but every weapon on it’s own is good. Of course basic ones are worse, but not useless. You pick a weapon you like, you can go with that. Not just keep picking a better weapon for high levels constantly…

And of course, you still grind in the game, but not for level but to get items. Better weapons and armors, cosmetics and hats, materials to make recipes, for special items to full the collections, to items that some NPC asks you to get… you farm for all of that.

Yea, was only an opinion, of course the current system is not bad, just my opinion about how it would be better. Thing about the example of MOBA. THey area great games cause u are forced at an early cap, so you have to improve, learn and get better, instead of infinite farming to be able to win. But yea, with the CURRENT SYSTEM you still have to improve, learn mechanics. I always have fun in duels against people at the same level, so it’s not an issue, i still will really enjoy the game, it’s amazin :smiley:

#5

I think games need easy cap when the cap is necessary to enjoy the game.
For example WoW. You NEED to be max level to raid, or you cant. And if you cant you wont get better gear. And the difference between good gear and quest gear is like night and day.
The problem with this is that Grinding stops being a choice, it becomes a Task. And tasks are boring.

Thats why “the game that shall not be named” worked with such high exp needs (around a day to get 10% later on), because you didn’t Need max level for WoE or PVP, and most builds were though to level 92-95 because of it.

Gear made you more powerful, and skills which were caped at job lvl 50-70 for advance classes. The grind was an option, if you wanted to get gear, or money, or mats for hats. You could 1v1 strong monsters, mob weaker monsters, 1v1 really strong monsters with a party or mob strong monsters with a party.

You could also make new characters to level up on places that dropped what you needed for your other characters (i always leveled alts at payon dun2 until i got at least 2 ss cards, so usually 2-3 alts until i went back to my assassin).

Also, you need customization, you need characters to be unique, not having this “i have all skills but i chose 4 to use” BS that diablo 3 tried.

The idea of this game is that max level takes months or years because is not necessary, it won’t make you extremely overpower. This is, however, excecuted poorly, to which i agree. But that is the problem, not the “clear cap”.

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#6

If there is competitive content available for every rank to enjoy, this shouldn’t matter. The difference between a level 90 and 100 are 10 stat points. This is miniscule.

#7

Game should be released with “MAX” 200 Levels.
And grinding should be more rewarding.
I’m not even talking about character customization, because there is no character customization.

#8

Hey there! nice thread ^^ It is good to see different opinions here!

I have one thing to say: I HATE pvp, so I’ll have to disagree with everything you said, I don’t see a need to reach a lvl cap. PVE is awesome, grinding is awesome, hack n’ slashing the mobs is awesome. Maybe they will put a lvl cap of 900 or something and then you make dungeon runs, fight tougher bosses and all. But for a PVE game, I don’t think we need an “easy-to-reach” lvl cap.

#9

There is no real pvp yet, you want people to level to 120 and sit in town doin nothing ? this is not even a pvp game, you people keep thinking this is ragnarok and expecting WoE and PvP, forget about it …

ps: people think the developers will get anything from this forum, let me tell you something, koreans don’t take feedback from anyone outside korea, they dont care about learning english for a reason. The people working on this forum are just community managers and they probably never even saw anyone from the developer team .

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#10

This game has weapons that can efficiently last you for 90+ levels though. Same with certain armor pieces.

The Community Managers are native Koreans tho’.

#11

level 1000 cap ftw!!!

#12

If there was a way to somehow cap the stats when entering PVP. I remember Dragon Nest fondly, where what matters is skill build and playing skill, since stat and equip bonuses are nerfed to maybe 10% of their original value. A level 40 average geared player can still defeat a fully geared level 50 player, so long as the former had the playing skill needed.

#13

Lmao this game is so going too have pvp and gvg. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

#14

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. They’re not the same types of games.

I’d like to think this is a game where you enjoy the journey, not the end. This isnt a game where you do all the content for each class in 50 hours either. TOS isnt the same at all. It’s different. That why I’m even giving the game a chance and why I’m here on these forums.

One of the most fun ive had in a game was one where there wasn’t a cap. I think the game is still going for 15 years and noones at a cap, because you can progress your character forever. I didnt get anywhere close to how strong other people were and i had way more fun there than with any modern games.

1 Like
#15

i think you should play MOBAs instead of mmos kiddo

2 Likes
#16

That’s why the changed the silver repair/selling price back from the korean version to how it was? If they didn’t listen to our feedback they would’ve left it.

#17

You said it yourself, there are other (popular) games which work like that, easy cap, based more on players’ skill.
BUT if I want to play a game to test out my skills, I play league, where I have invested time and money yet. Why would I want to start a new game which offers basically the same if I’m happy with the game I always played?
Not to forget that there’s also dota2, smite, HoS, etc etc
Also these are moba games (as you said). This is a mmorpg. 2 different genres…

Sure there are also mmorpgs which follow your example - GW2 would be one of them.
Theres D3, but again another genre.

I got all these games yet and actually ToS is pretty unique with its high lvl cap.
Sometimes one indeed actually enjoys getting stronger just by working hard on it.

Grinding is almost ok like it is imo, only I think they should remove the exp penalty and make the lvl difference more noticeable (like I usually shouldn’t be able to kill a mob 10 lvls higher than me, or if, then only with a good plan). And so the exp values. Higher lvl mobs should give noticeable more xp than their 10 lvl lower collegues, so people won’t grind on low lvl areas + save their xp cards to get over certain lvls which seem hard to grind.

#18

True that the point of this game is the journey, not the end. First, i really enjoy farming, destroying monsters is a lot of fun. But “the end” is not the real end, but the beggining.

And yea, there’s people that hates pvp, this happens in all games… (i cant understand, but happens) so the best is to add an area. An arena where two players enter and the lower one gets the level and, of course, all the parameters, the weapon power and maybe skill power, EVERYTHING increased and adjusted to be equal to the other. The point is, “this player is very low, and this other is high. Let’s put the player like if it were at the same high point as the other, so they fight equally”. Of course it’s not 100% equal, because of… the highest has more skill and more levels per skill etc, but… the point i’m trying to mark, is to allow a mode where people can join an pvp together at the same opportunities. You have a friend lvl100. I’m lvl70. I want to be able to have a fair fight. Make an arena, make automatic adjustments, but that’s my point.

because pve is a thing, and I LIKE in this case… well, not that, im FORCED to level forever, cause while i farm for items and things, i level nonstop (in dark souls you can cap your level as you want, to fight other people also capped, so you are equal in opportunities and wins the better, and the one that did the BEST build), i want to be able to keep levelling nonstop, so i can reach higher areas etc, but meanwhile, i want to be able to have those duels in a dedicated arena. It’s ok to find random people in cities and areas, searching someone at your same level, but they can improve that adding an arena with auto adjustments. Something can be done there

#19

To cut my comment short and not waste my time on too much typing… You sound like someone who never played an asia grind MMORPG or even any MMORPG at all, hearing you complain about needing new items every few levels.
I do agree that some exp needs a bit extra boost to get up there faster.

#20

PEOPLE, A QUESTION! How was the War of Emperium in RO? Ro had a level cap, it was… 99 base, 50 job, or 70 job. How was WOE? I mean, players from different levels could enter there, with that imbalance? Or maybe they were autoadjusted… or only players from level 99 could join, to be fair?

AND! I KNOW. I KNOW A 99 PLAYER IS NOT BETTER THAN A 80. I know that a lvl50 can beat a lvl70 if he is better but… how about if both are equal better? Then the 50 wins. Its not about a magical dream when you can win higher enemies with your effort, NO. YOU CANT. You have to be equal in opportunities (stats, weapons, skills) or you have more chances to lose, because the other ALSO has that dream and can be better than you. So how they dealt with this unbalance in war of emperium?

And yea, like i said, PVE and infinite levels are necessary in the game, but we can have that arena :smiley:

I played a lot of mmorp and rpg. I know about needing new weapons every X levels, i’m just thinkin if it’s the best, but who cares at this point :smiley: