Tree of Savior Forum

In MMOs there is no middle ground

General Discussion
#1

The concept of a happy medium is entrenched in many cultures. The reality is that Liberty, Equality, and Equity are not things which can translate easily, if at all to a MMO. The attempt at all three is futile. To further compound the problem is diversity. Diversity from a Governance standpoint is toxic. Due to the nature of operation of this MMO, and most, IMC is a body of Governance.

Let us examine first the concept of Governance. Simply put IMC is the controling entity of rules and infrastructure. Further they are a direct factor in market, think China to get an idea for comparison. Taking it a step further they are also capable of control of the in game world, thus liberty, which real world governments are incapable of. Granted one could choose not to play, but that is a real world choice, and like today, this choice is still subject to IMC, IMC can make servers inactive, ban accounts, etc.

Now to the question of middle ground. There is none. Objectively it is impossible, there is to much diversity in the player base, and within the governance to make this possible. Subjectively it is possible, “This game is perfectly balanced,” but that is simply a self deception or misinterpretation. No player could come to a conclusion such as this unless they were working on inaccurate information or didn’t have an accurate understanding of balance.

Thus how do we solve this problem? Simply put we do not. Instead IMC must find a ground that works for their revenue stream. Either leaning toward the hardcore segment or toward the casual. Then there is also the multi-verse approach where various servers can be made to cater to differing segments.

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#2

i was not aware that i was attending a pol science class

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#3

Every online game is an absolute dictatorship. most of them simply find it easier to get along by promoting themselves as benign, or even benevolent dictators.

but thanks for the /pol filler.

#4

Bingo. Let the hardcore players play their grinding game alone in their 0.001 chance low rate / no reset servers and create a server for casuals. This divides the community but it solves all the problems at the same time.

#5

We’ll see. At least you’re not mouthing off like a hypocritical little pest that loves to insult people and resort to ad hominems who refuse to admit defeat when bested in a debate. The matter of concern about servers right now are the locations, their pings, and respective economies; hardcore vs casual can wait…like, months (or years) after the game has stabilized.

#6

Further let us examine the terms Hardcore and Casual.

One implies heavy investment the other light investment. The MMO community for thebnorm looks at investment of time actively played. However this does not translate well.

Casual, as in relationships, is something lacking deep investment. Yes, you have a relationship with the game not a romantic one… well normally not. This could be logging in only infrequently or sporadically. This could mean binge sessions followed by long breaks. However this could also mean you do not support the game substantively. Thats right, if you F2P pay no real money for anything but log 12 active hours a day, you are casual. Understanding that the game in order to prosper needs funding, by providing no funds and using up resources you are casual at best, and at worst a leech.

Hardcore would be on the other side of the spectrum. If one spends thousands of dollars on cosmetics but has only a lvl 40 character, they are Hardcore. The same goes to a F2P who spends 12 active hours in the game, BUT also provides useful bug reports, is a substantial contributer to the user base via guides, tutorials, game promotion (think bloggers) etc.

So what truly separates casual from hardcore? The active steps either person takes to contribute to the betterment of the game they are playing. This goes across all games/ hobbies for the most part.

#7

I find that your analysis is missing some points thus your conclusion is a bit false.
What drives your casual/hardcore separation is the investment one puts in the game w/e type of investment they use : financial,passion,contribution,implication,time…
This is wrong, at least in our case.
This is because :
1 - People who are invested in the game by any other means than Game Time are (in most cases ) indifferent towards the state of the game.
For example : someone who is invested in the community of Tree of savior because he solely likes the lore and he likes to draw characters from Tree of Savior. This person is NOT a hardcore player, it is simply a passionate player and will most likely not interfere in gameplay issues and debates on the forums.
Someone who spends tons of money on the game but plays it rarely. This person is not a hardcore player because, once again, he’s not really affected by the end game state and will most likely not interfere in gameplay issues and debates on the forums. He is either rich and spends tons of money on everything or likes to have an edge over other people quickly (this may even qualify him as a casual)

2 - Even if you’re analysis may apply in some cases, it is not valid here because most debates on the topics are between people who have all the time to play and people who lack time. People who are playing a type of class that is OP and people who are playing a type class that is underwhelming. People who want to have fun and people who want to be the best.
Thus, to separate these two parties that are most of the time intertwined, we will use the terms hardcore and casual.
We will then have something like this :

  • Time related : People who have plenty of time to play the game which they do(Hardcore) vs People who want to play the game but have IRL stuff to do most of the time (Casual)
  • Fun Meter : People who just want to have fun ( Casual ) vs People who want to be the best in PvP/PvE (Hardcore)
  • Game Improvement : People who don’t care much about the state of the game ( Casual ) vs People who are implicated in the gameplay forums and want the game to improve (Hardcore)

if you saw the different topics in the forums, much of it are debates between people who want it hard and people who want it easy. So, and as you said earlier, a multiverse solution could solve these issues.

P.S : My english is not that good so I may make some expression mistakes.

#8

I addressed this in my post but I will reiterate. The concept of Hardcore/ Casual does not translate well to the real world from the MMO community concept. My basis is not false, your definitions are simply subjective. Passionate is a synonym fir Hardcore.

Let us use baseball. You have Hardcore Fans, they may never play the game but they buy the memorabilia, paint their face, and buy tickets to every game.

Then you have the casual fan who occasionally watches the playoffs and never buys/ attends anything.

Now if you are arguing that a Leech can be considered hardcore in general, not in relation to any specific game, then you invalidate your argument by mentioning game specific issues/ balance.