Tree of Savior Forum

Immaturity destroys full tanks

General Discussion
#1

Hello,

As I was going into a mission, and as I noticed before while doing all these runs. Once you go full tank, you give up on being a damage dealer to up your health pool. Every time I have another swordsman in my group, whether while in DG or missions or even grinding- I kindly ask them to disable their aggro attribute as well as to not taunt as Swash is completely broken and it’s extremely easy for a Swordsman dps with the attribute to steal the aggro.

90% of the time they never listen and do whatever they please then taking on the aggro, more often than not dying themselves then blaming the real tank for not being able to hold aggro.

Today I was in a group where members were telling me to kill myself just because of it. I don’t really care about the words of frustrated teenagers, I wish their parents would slap them more tho :wink: but this taunt attribute should be completely removed or moved so that only squires, or rodeleros, hell even Pelt 2s and 3s can have it but NOT pelt 1s. Pelt 1 is the easy grab for any dps that doesn’t really care about tanking but wants an easy way to get into groups. Not only that, but Swash should have a complete rework or should scale with the user’s CON.

Edit: I actually think you can get the aggro attribute in the swordsman tree so… that’s actually worse. It shouldn’t be available to pure swordsman.
Having to deal with these players is quite annoying and makes the whole experience of the game quite boring.

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#2

it’s their fault for playing badly. there’s nothing to gain from pigeon-holing all agro skills into a single class.

#3

As someone with only 1 circle in Peltasta, I’ve always seceded the tanking role to Pelt C3s and Rodeleros whenever I’m matched in a group with them. I know my swashbuckling and block rate are inferior to theirs and I always do my best to stay out for their way by turning off provoke and keeping the swashbuckling skill away from my hotkeys. I just deal the damage I’m supposed to do to keep the party going. I built my character as a Sub-Tank/DPS. I can tank when needed and I can kill when needed, that’s my role and I know it.

Sometimes a lot of people don’t know their role in a party. Sometimes they just want to feel important and do their own thing. Other times they see another person stealing their role and become jealous of that fact. It’s annoying but it happens. More people need self-control and less jealousy to go around. I think that would make the world a happier place.

#4

This is a real issue on dungeons and is inevitable for the following reason: the groups are always random.

If partying up previously with friends, guild or reliable comrades was preferable to random partying, there would be more strategy and planning and this would happen less.

I have the same problem with my DPS Pyro. For me to deal maximum damage I need the monsters to stay put on a single spot, but all the time my comrades pull the mobs away from the Flame Ground + Fire Pillar (specially Cryos and Kinos) do deal their own damage and I find it very amateurish and disrespectful.

And I haven’t even began to talk about the Fireball and how people just couldn’t care less about striking it away (even when it is crystal clear that the Fireball is the best damage source of the group).

Of course I cannot blame anyone; if I want to have a role in a party, I should play with people that agree to me. But that is hard once the groups in dungeons are randomic.

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#5

This doesn’t even matter missions + dungeons are so easy you don’t need a healer or tank. So regardless of who has aggro its not a big deal.

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#6

Full tank in this game is a joke and not necessary. Being able to taunt + do damage contributes much more to a team than being able to taunt and hold your shield out. That being said I don’t think early content should be too bad if other swordman also take aggro in a group. If they are too weak and die then its their fault.

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#7

Wait for Earth Tower…you won’t make the same statement but yes… the issue wasn’t that we couldn’t handle it, on the contrary it could have been a piece of cake… the issue is the refusal of the team to communicate and organize, pulling aggro in different directions intentionally to mess up the group and then blaming the tank.

#8

The context of this conversion is not earth tower.

Also your not going to go into earth tower with randoms. You will recruit a party. So earth tower is irrelevant to this conversation.

#9

I stand corrected. :slight_smile:

#10

Its not necessary for Earth’s Tower too. But yeah you were talking about far easier content.

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#11

I’m not going to lie to you, I get very frustrated sometimes when people think just holding C is all there is to tanking.

Most people just swash buckling and stand still there in the same spot with C up thinking they’re contributing to the party.

Things to consider when tanking:

  • If you use swash buckling and stand still in middle of a room with C up, you’re not really tanking or helping much. Any swordman class could do that with swash buckling and also be able to deal damage. Plus, staying in the middle of the room means the wizzies/archers in your party will still get hit in the crossfire every now and then.

  • If every monster you’re aggroing is physical damage dealer, you can hold C but do it AGAINST A WALL so that the mobs have their backs to the rest of the party. This way your party members won’t get hurt in the middle of the crossfire (unless they’re melee).

  • Holding C in the same place for a party full of melee-damage dealers is almost pointless. They will almost always walk up nearby you and take the damage from the mobs (unless they’re smart enough to stay slightly behind the mobs, but that’s rarely the case).

  • For tanking any group of mobs that has magic-damage dealers among them, jumping around is way more effective than blocking with C. Actually, it’s just as effective as holding C against physical mobs but then it’s just easier to hold C. Yes, even against archers because you can jump to their back and make their arrows shoot to the wrong side (unless there’s tons of them, ofc).

  • For the reason above, smart players can tank effectively even without a shield. Thus, your role as a full tanker is even less important if you have lots of jumping rabbits in your party.

  • Tanking is NOT just jumping around or holding C. If you want to focus completely on tanking, having CC skills is your best tool and going rodelero is a must. Also, using bash 3 with the knockback attribute to push mobs into your party mates AoE skills is a very effective way to help your party (you both disable the mob with your knockback and make your party deal more DPS). Bash was just an example but ofc you can do that with any knockback skill.

  • Off-tanks are very common and sometimes they will render you useless because they can both tank and deal damage, while you, can only tank. If they can survive the tanking, there’s nothing you can do about it because they will always pull more aggro than you (you being a full tank) since they deal more damage and also contribute more to party DPS (again, as long as they don’t die). If that’s the case, then your tanking will be rendered mostly to using CC skills around (that why it’s very important you have them).

  • Evasion tanks are better than HP tanks when fighting physical dmg mobs. Evasion tanks can’t dodge arrows properly (because archer mobs usually have insane dex) but the fact they don’t need to stand still doing nothing (aka holding C) make them a lot better in the general physical mob fighting scenario. If you want to tank properly, focus on surviving magic and not physical damage, that’s what makes you unique when compared to most evasion characters.

  • Full tanks shine mostly only on very end-game content. Before lvl 200, most off-tanks will perform just as good or better than you at tanking. That’s something you have to live with.

  • Wearing cloth is something to consider for a tanker with a shield (or without a shield and tons of evasion to spare).

  • Swordmen by themselves are tankers. They already lose on DPS compared to archers and wizzies to have more base health. No, swash buckling should not be only given to peltasta 2 because you’re talking about ruining the builds of many off-tanks out there for your own sake. Again, if you think swash buckling is all there is to tanking, then you’re the one who’s wrong.

  • All that being said, do not expect people to be grateful of your tanking. Sure, you built a tanker. But just as some people won’t waste 5 seconds of their lives to step on a Heal square to recover their lost hp, some people won’t care if you’re trying to tank or not. You’re a support class and like it or not, you can’t support people who don’t want to be supported.

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