Tree of Savior Forum

IMC please buff Shinobi invis or nerf Scout's Cloaking

General Discussion
#1

Shinobi:

  • Rank 7 hidden class that have most cancerous/annoying and expensive class change quest in game
  • Invisibility comes from 2 spells in a form of VERY EXPENSIVE attributes (400k+ for katon no jutsu)
  • it last only few second (max 8 seconds for both Mijin or Katon with max lv attribute)
  • 29 second cooldown (Katon) or 50 seconds (Mijin)
  • it requires 2 Ninjutsu bombs to use (Katon no Jutsu) or 5 Ninjutsu Bombs + 6500~4500 HP (Mijin no Jutsu). And of course SP
  • you don’t get additional movement speed during invisibility
  • you don’t get bonus DMG on next attack

#VS

Scout:

  • Rank4 class
  • class change quest is brain dead easy
  • Invisibility is a separate spell available at first circle of Scout
  • is last 23seconds at lv 1, 35seconds at lv 5, 50seconds at lv 10, 65seconds at lv 15
  • cooldown 35 seconds. So you just need lv 5 Cloaking if you want to be perma invisible\
  • no special requirements to use beside SP
  • “Cloaking: Physical Damage” attribute - Deals additional damage equal to 50% physical attack to the next used attacking skill during [Cloaking].
  • “Cloaking: Increased Movement Speed” - Increases the movement speed of [Cloaking] by 1 per attribute level. Max 5

Shinobi invisibility needs to be buffed SUPER HARD.
option1

  • Increase it’s duration to 20 seconds at least for Katon no Jutsu and 40 seconds for Mijin.
  • remove requirement of Ninjutsu bombs or at least make it 1 per use and let Shinobi craft them
  • drastically reduce the cost of that attribute (although those who got that attribute already won’t benefit from that change… RIP silver)
  • increase movement speed of Shinobi during invis or make next 2-3 attacks have 100% critical chance (enemy crit resistance won’t lower it)

option2
Get rid of those attributes for Katon&Mijin and give Shinobi “Stealth” spell. Max lv 1 with low cooldown. Make it be copy of Scout’s lv5 Cloaking or even more buffed/stronger version

OR

Nerf Scout’s Cloaking.

  • 8-10 second duration
  • Scout needs to use special items: 5 smoke bomb/dust powder/[insert here other name]
  • Increase cooldown

In PvE Scout’s Cloaking isn’t that big strong tool. It allows to travel fast or avoid monsters during dungeon “rushes” or maybe even drop agro from bosses

BUT

In PvP (specially in 2 vs 2 team battle league) it’s unbalance/overpowered/broken beyond everything (who in IMC though that giving invisibility for Archer tree that have already bunch of CC and high absurd damage would be good idea?)

Combine it with

  • Rogue class: Sneak Hit + Backstab + Volley basic combo = you will be dead in seconds

or

  • Musketeer class: cloaking -> wait when cloaking is almost ready to use again -> snipe/headshot -> finish off enemy or hide again if enemy team have no healer -> repeat whole process unless easy win

…you won’t have good/fun time in Battle League or basic 1 vs 1 PvP vs Archer class using Cloaking.

@STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_John @STAFF_Amy @STAFF_Max @STAFF_Ines @STAFF_No

9 Likes
#2

IMC have no talent at balance stuffs at all
rmb that

4 Likes
#3

support buffing Shinobi invis

against nerfing Scout invis

9 Likes
#4

So much disappointment for a “SECRET” class right? I knw the feeling too. :disappointed:

#5

the biggest disappointment is when you realize that scout+rogue combo is actually better Ninja/Shinobi/Assassin that actual Shinobi class

and soon Hakkapalle will be better sword user than Swordsman class

“quality” class design

1 Like
#6

Did you know so call invis skill isnt suppose to be design as a real invis skill its more like a counter mechanic than scout’s invis skill ?

#7

oh ok, let make a trade shall we? give clones and kunei to scout and u can keep our cloacking
seen fair!

1 Like
#8

Good topic. Really strange that Shinobi, espionage masters in reality/lore is far less sneaky than a goddamned Scout. I always feel so rushed because of the 8 seconds, sometimes leading me into making mistakes.

I’m always against nerfs so I prefer they leave Scout alone. Just fix Shinobi.

1 Like
#9

i think imc’s idea is they want a warrior like ninja not a stealth assassin thats why it feels so clunky

1 Like
#10

remember, “Rogue class: Sneak Hit + Backstab + Volley basic combo = you will be dead in seconds” IF in PVP, u need the target to be sleep, stun or not moving in order to execute it successfully

#11

If that was true then there wouldn’t be invisibility at all. I think they just never had a clear direction for this class, just wanting to release something to attract all the Narutards like me.

#12

I agree but you’re missing a crucial element of this comparison.

Shinobi invisibility is not removed by attacking.
Scout Cloaking is removed by attacking.

With a buff in time to the length of Shinobi invisibility this effect will start to become a very large problem very quickly. It already causes problems in pvp where I can go invisible and throw Corsair Hook while invisible to hold in place without any real threat to me.

If I had more time I could easily run around throwing Helm Chopper and Seism stuns at enemies multiple times.

When Murmillo comes out invisible Shinobis using jump+headbutt aoe stun? It’s going to be very powerful.

I agree that changes need to be made here, but we need to be fair about the strengths that the move currently has, it is not pointless and is quite powerful as it currently is, it just looks weak compared to cloaking having such an absurd length of time.

I would be happy with a buff that stops Shinobi invisibility from being removed upon getting hit/attacked by the enemy. This would allow for the skill to be used to disappear in the middle of combat to run away, like a Ninja using their Ninjutsu Bombs, as seems to be intended by the class change quest too.

2 Likes
#13

Or, to put it a more reasonable way,

Shinobi: Super invisibility that lets you use skills while invisible and ■■■■ on people, also has the potential to deal enormous burst damage and gets a fairly strong attacking skill all for one rank.

Scout: Literally just stealth and hide-in-barrel gimmick until circle 3.

Actually even with the karacha set, this rotation does ■■■■ all damage compared to most good PVP builds. Rogue sucks a whole bag of dicks right now.

1 Like
#14

Scout cloaking is removed by DEALING DAMAGE, not attacking. Currently playing bokor, and most scout cannoneers try to Cannon blast me down, but i’m under mackangdal effect and it deals no damage… And he remains invisible.

It should be removed as soon as he uses a skill. Not like shooting a fcking Cannon blast is not going to show his position, logics.

#15

… if IMC’s to buff shinobi
i’d like to ask for the following:
KUNAI

  1. increase range (its kunai! it should be a bit more farther than this!)
  2. increase base damage
  3. increase damage bonus per level
  4. reduce cooldown

Mokuton

  1. Reduce cooldown

Bunshin

  1. Fix the delay causing the copying of skills to get bugged and make it move as fast as the main body
  2. reduce cooldown

Katon

  1. increase base damage
  2. increase damage bonus per level
  3. reduce cooldown

Mijin

  1. increase base damage
  2. increase damage bonus per level
  3. reduce the hp consumed by half… at lvl 1 the skill consumes 6500 hp plus 5 bombs (1500 Silver) for 2403 flat dmg scaling seriously??? add maybe 25% of my current max HP and it would be much more reasonable.

reduce cost of bombs to 50 or 100 each… 300… im effin cheap i won’t spam them skills

… this class wants us to take con and dex for bunshin and mijin but the price to pay is so so… you guys might’ve noticed that im asking for reduced cooldown of 4 skills … why?? dude we’re ninjas and ninjas move fast we don’t wait for enemies to kill us we kill the enemies before they even try to kill us lol…

ON TOPIC
im with what OP’s suggesting but tbh… im fine with how shinobi skill works it just needs to get tweaked make it in equal terms with what we sacrifice for a certain skill like mijin its just not that appealing for me to use… well it has its uses on pvp rofl…

#16

Logics…in a world where u can shoot a fireball from your staff.

#17

and then you remember this game doesn’t work like that

because there is scout cannoneers and scout musketeers who get more burst than they know what to do with
they get the damage and the utility

and that hide in barrel gimmick can win you games

whoever thinks rogue is for damage though

no…its for capture and thats about it (to steal safety zones :D)
the other utilities are too gimmicky for a pvp skirmish situation

and resorting to melee on an archer is silly
why backstab when you can shoot a musket or cannon?

rogue and scout are both pick 1 circle and leave it alone circles atm

luckily you can be a rogue scout cannon/musket and it does 0 impairment to your burstdps

#18

I like this idea. Shinobi needs better escape mechanisms as they should be hit and run types. I think IMC tried to do that with Mokuton, and stealth from Katon and Mijin but failed miserably because of bugs and the fact that 9/10 you will get hit after using those skills with people around, which will break stealth.

#19

Except Scout invis is litterally the only good skill and only reason to go scout.

I still regret going scout though, invis wasnt worth it.

Nerf it and gives me a class reset, k then.

#20

I don’t even see why you compare the two when Scout’s Cloaking has so many cons.
Scout loses their invisibility when they are hit, when they jump or when they deal damages.
It totally is balanced in my opinion since you can’t stay invisible all the time, because you won’t just stand around and do nothing, you’ll use a skill and get out of it, and you’ll have the 30s cd until you can use it again.
I’ve never been os by an archer in PvP with Cloaking, but to each their own.

You want 20s of Katon and 40s to Mijin ? You want to have a 100% chance to crit with it + movement speed ?
You don’t want it to be fair, you want Shinobis to be OP because you love that class, that’s all.
If you give longer invisibility durations to Shinobi or an attack boost when they’re invisible it’ll then be unbalanced compared to other classes.

At least Awoooo makes more sense and truly wants it to be fair. Not to make Shinobi the next meta class.