Well WOW had the warcraft games that pulled a lot of people, TOS has RO
1 Like
Almost no game that does this actually survives. Out of my mind, I can remember Aion, TERA, SWTOR and ESO. In a lot of cases, they canāt actually make a profit and is there barely alive, with a generally stagnated community that just dies slower because people can keep playing for free. Itās not about actually profitting more, itās about trying to raise player retention, āif people arenāt paying anymore, letās see if they get back for freeā. Itās mostly a desperate measure. Actually, SWTOR and ESO arenāt doing well, but are backed by big gaming companies, thatās why they can keep going: they can take a loss and still try to recover. Aion is a bit more successful, TERA seems to be stable but I admit I donāt know whatās happening over there for quite some time.
In the case of Aion and TERA, lolis using bikinis are actually a very stable income source, lol
Like @Naemhain just said, itās basically the issue of people thinking āis it worth it to pay for this?ā, aka the very player engagement problem I said P2P and B2P games have to deal with. This is exactly why I say ToS wonāt survive as P2P even if I prefer P2P: it wonāt be able to draw enough interest to keep being P2P, so itās only option is to try itās luck and attract whales. If you have the right 10% players that will keep your game alive, youāre good. If they migrate to the next cool thing, your game is dead. P2P, when it draws enough people, is a much more stable system (again, citing WoW, FFXIV and EVE as proof) both financially for developers, and as a community for players.
1 Like
my opinion?? f2p, cash shop only cosmetic and exp boosters, cus p2w games are bad nuffā¦
I hope its a B2P game with low cost and then a added cash shop that would provide cosmetics or other little items that would not give great advantages to players. If they do F2P I really want them to do a subscription premium, not just cash shop advantages.
1 Like
hmm the arguments seems bigger now @_@"
well for startersā¦ i think the devs should make 2 seversā¦ one for P2P/B2P and the other one for F2Pā¦
in this caseā¦ P2P based ToS server=has more content/updates than F2Pā¦
thenā¦ F2P based ToS server(in the same client)= less/un-updated content, but can earn points to play P2P server/just remain as it is but has the elements of what F2P should have to surviveā¦
that way, P2P based server could, if posible help F2P server in monetary means if it dosnt gennerate more cash for server maintence (probably not happening, but there might be gennerous people out there to help us needy poor XD)
but i think the character on both servers should be locked on each server they are created and thatll be another problem ( =3=")
If, If, If. If denotes a hypothetical situation, not a fact.
Why are you directing this question to me? Iām sure @azebu95 has great ideas how to keep people less of a āsmart guyā as he is, out of the game. To quote @azebu95:
I do not need data to support an opinion, especially my own opinion. Data are needed to support facts.
This is going to be an INTERNATIONAL SERVER. Decisions & suggestions should be made with the global market in mind. If you cannot make suggestions with the world in consideration then do not.
Evidently you are not familiar with the rules of debate. Every point on this reply stems from your deficiency in comprehension. As such this reply will most likely not be comprehended by you, thus I will stop wasting time on you.
Because I owe pleasantry to people who discriminates?
Refer to the above, iām pretty sure I used the conditional If. I threw links at him for being judgmental to people by national or social origin, property, birth or other status.
3 Likes
I think many people are getting confused with the benefits of P2P and F2Pā¦ A P2P system means the devās know exactly how much money they have coming in each month and how to regulate the money within their organisation. Itās best for titles which have a self sustained community of fans (Like RO), and helps keep certain negative habits from creeping in, such as āWhale huntingā (Selling lots of expensive items hoping someone rich (A whale) will spend a large amount of money on the game). However itās not perfect because it means paying for a game which you may not like, or may not have the chance to play as much as you would like. Being poor isnāt really a factor unless 1. They price it at stupid rates (I think Ā£10 a month is way too much for the modern era), or 2. You are so poor, you cannot afford food (And Iām a student, I can barely afford that). Whilst F2P games have the luxury of having a wider audience to cater to, they also can get stuck in negative business practises, which Ragnarok Online fell into if the flow of money starts to decline. It also gives the game a sense of being a bit cheap. They tend to lack the quality of a P2P game right out the gates, and if other successful F2P MMOās are anything to go by, they still take a while of patching and tweaking before itās perfect. In the long run, a successful F2P could bring in a much larger audience, but short term would seem cheap. Whereas in the sort term, P2P tend to add more value to the game your playing as the money flow is consistent, and the community tends to be a bit tighter and friendly. Those are my thoughts atleast~
2 Likes
I think they can make a viable cash shop. Just focus it on cosmetics and steer it away from p2w items. A subscription really isnāt the worst thing in the world, either. Iād see them easily taking $8-10/mo
Well dividing into 2 servers will ultimately mean lower population for both servers. Probably leading to less fun and interactions.
The developmental cost are the same with 1 or 2 servers, and no money will be saved by going 2 servers (increasing cost if anything).
And this runs into the problem of artificially limiting game experience, and lowering its true potential.
2 Likes
Iām pretty sure there will be more than 1 server regardless of which model they ended up with. Especially if they aim for huge playerbase.
3 Likes
well trueā¦ but with the arguements of having this for the others, P2P, and the others, F2P, thyāre just gonna clash! clash! and clash!
im not againts p2p like in my previous replyā¦ but if this game goes to itā¦ then so be itā¦ its all the game devs decision anyways and further more i support F2P!
in line on 2 server posibilities i saidā¦ it can be 1 server! devided by 2 channels! or some sortā¦ that way, p2p and f2ps pros can interactā¦ but theres also the benefit of an p2p player for new content making them ch1 at server only exclusive to them! and ch2 were only for f2p players were over time earn enough money to gain access to ch1ā¦ which is the updated part of the serverā¦ well this is complicated to make though in my opinionā¦
single server, multiple channelā¦may divide players, but theres a merrit there alsoā¦ they can cater both the F2P people and pro P2Ps!
but thats just my opinion and bias to F2P games! XD
I agree that catering the game to both the financially well to do and financially limited is critically important.
well this will generate more problems in the futureā¦ so i think weāll have to have a reliable devsā¦ other wiseā¦ people will just disapear 1 by 1 @_@" and i dont want ToS to fail! certainly not!
hmm questionā¦ is there any 2D if not 2.5D game MMO that lasted long as P2P to current date? i know Ro 1st was P2P in PHā¦ but they go F2Pā¦ then shutdown( transfered to iRo) recently due to the fact they say"they cant compete with modern gamesā¦ 3D games"(if im not mistaken)
but i know ToS will just do fine, may it be B2P/P2P/F2P/anything2P/etcā¦
contents! just bring in amusing/intersting contents! player always want somthing new! then theyāll give u the money for thatā¦ >_<"
p2p bothers me only in that whenever I feel like taking a break from the game it feels like iām wasting my money. Which leads to my source of entertainment sometimes feeling like a choreā¦ (one reason why I quit ffxiv.) 
That being said, iād still play even if they chose that method, especially if the monthly price was under 15$! (Iād definitely play for a while at least.)
f2p with cash shop seems like the safest option for mmoās these days as almost all the last few big mmoās Iāve personally seen release recently as p2p have later gone f2p/b2p ā I also think b2p with cash shop seems like a happy medium that many could work with, but itās still exclusive of some. I want everyone to be able to enjoy ToS, but I wonāt deny that iāll accept whatever they choose so I can finally get my hands on this game! 
What new MMO only has one server? Honestly, Iāve never heard of such a thing. Unless you mean for the beta test??
Oh boy, this is not what you said at all, nor how āifā works. Youāre just copy-pasting things without context.
You said that if the publisher decides to go P2P, then it means the game is only for rich smart guys, but thereās no correlation between those ideas. If they decide that it should be P2P, it doesnāt automatically mean theyāre segregating between who is smart or rich enough or not to play their game. I actually was taking this as a irony reaction the first time you said this, but then you just insisted on the idea on the next post, which makes it look like this is actually your point.
Not only that, but I actually chuckled with your link to rules to parlimentary debate. If anything it actually convinced me to make an offtopic post like this.
Ragnarok itself survived for almost 5 years since itās release in Korea I think, Gravity basically started to panic after the first RO2 flopped still in beta.
Plus, just to add some to the discussion, I think the brazilian RO server lost about half of itās population when it changed from pure P2P to P2P+F2P servers. That was the figure used back in 2007~8, I canāt remember how accurate it is. But it definitively lost players in the process. Yes, the F2P model was awful, but that can happen, like I pointed out multiple times, to every game which the publisher thinks canāt return a profit without extreme monetization and is something that still happens to a lot of games today. Not only that, but notice the P2P server was still ative, but with about 1/4 of itās original population (a lot of people quit, another bunch migrated to F2P) it was nothing compared to before.
I pretty sure I said if ToS implemented revenue streams as @azebu95 prefers, his preference quoted above, that he would rather have ToS free of ākids and entitled cheapskatesā and is populated by āsmart guysā who can make monthly payments.
The rest is purely of your own interpretation, never stated nor implied by me. Do what you will with your own interpretations. I have also never mentioned P2P as an absolute no-no, and have mentioned that it works on specific circumstances.
I will kindly take exit from this thread as I have expressed my ideas sufficiently, and have nothing else to contribute to this thread.
I recommend everyone to re-read these rules before continuing to post on this thread :
- Be civil. Donāt post anything that a reasonable person would consider offensive, abusive, or hate speech.
- Respect each other. Donāt harass or grief anyone, impersonate people, or expose their private information. Respect our forum.
3 Likes