Tree of Savior Forum

I really want to like Cataphract

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

I’ve reluctantly reset my Cataphract today, and will likely just be putting that entire character on the shelf for a while. I was excited to hear about all the changes to the game since I last played - specifically about turning all the fake multi-hits into actual multi-hits (something that was a curse on Cata before). Unfortunately, there are still some issues I take with it - that ultimately prevent me from enjoying it. This is a complaint thread. Sorry not sorry.

  1. The SP consumption on Rush is wayyyyyy too high. Its basically a weaker version of Cyclone, with no overheats and a longer cooldown. It’s also our C3 skill, which one would hope means “this is a really kickass skill”. I mean, its cool, and I enjoy the idea of it - but it eats anywhere from 2/5 to 4/5 (with Acrobat) of my SP. Thats really steep. Too steep.
  2. There aren’t many choices for what to choose for later circles. The “obvious” choice is Lancer, because they are both mount classes. Unfortunately Lancer is very much a PvP class, and its got a very uninteresting kit to boot. The other choice usually is Dragoon. Now, while I enjoy the concept of a Dragoon - I don’t particularly find this one very exciting or interesting to play. Whatever thats really just my problem I have to deal with I suppose.

So ultimately I would like to suggest;

  1. Remove the SP increase from Acrobatic Mount.
  2. Reduce the SP cost of Rush significantly, like, by 80%.
  3. Please add another mounted class and/or Spear oriented class for Swordsmen in the future. Maybe Dragoon will get a rework and be more fun, I don’t know… Lancer certainly isn’t though.

Anyways, rant over.

1 Like
#2

As a mounted class enthusiast, I know how you feel. Tried to play cata countless time, but I always end up playing foot dragoon because they can do damage

#3

I first tried Cata last year, did not last long, the damage was so low, specially for a class that requires 2 slots.
Tried it again this time, since I still can’t find a build that feels good on my swordie-
Low Damage, consumes a lot of SP and dies fast…
Swordsman is so lacking overall.

#4

At least Trot and the block penetration attribute make up for the lack of damage. They are already giving Cataphract’s Rush double damage but half the duration (Less fun) in KTest, But I believe they should remove some skill restrictions to allow more variety for cataphract like Retiari.

1 Like
#5

allowing retiarius skills while mounted would make cata so much better

2 Likes
#6

Dragging netted enemies while mounted. I want to see that.

#7

Cataphract could be awesome as long as they just simply tuned its numbers better.

  • Increase Earth Wave damage roughly by roughly 3x.
  • Increase Steed Charge damage by 2x, increase the window where you can use it again by at least 1 second, and make it always a static 1 second cast time (I forget if it increases per skill point, I think it still does).
  • Increase Doom Spike damage by 2x, increase the duration of the critical resistance debuff to 10 seconds.
  • Increase Rush damage by like 2.5x damage, decrease the sp drain by like 60%.

Additional stuff that could help improve the class:

  • Make Acrobatic Mount effect all spear skills while mounted (creates more synergy, may need to be tuned however, something like a +50% damage increased Dragon fall could be too op).
  • Give Trot an attribute that requires like level 11 or higher that gives you 100 crit rate or something like 15% incoming damage reduction, or even the chance to block with a 2H spear.
  • Give Earth Wave a shock effect where after casting it, a second hit (at whatever modified damage) happens 1 second after like Earthquake in Path of Exile.

Honestly Cataphract is pretty fun as it is, for me at least, it just needs some small tweaks and love.

That probably won’t happen for a while, the game really needs a rank 8 2h sword class first, that’s probably what will happen first. I’d rather see them improve the current spear classes for class synergy than add another.

3 Likes
#8

^ this! Even if it’s just the non-dagger-only skills.

I gave up on my spear-shield PelCataGoon because there was no good pick for it in R10.

Also would like this:

Honestly even a +10-15% boost at max level would be good enough for me.

#9

@ZeroFoxGiven there’s a simple pick for r10 with 1h spear + shield catagoon. pelt c3 :slight_smile: . umbo thrust wipes out the enemy’s defense, massively boosting your damage in later content. and it can be used while mounted.

1 Like
#10

Oh, will try that. Thanks!

#11

@ZeroFoxGiven it’s not a bad build. it’s just a shame that retiarius builds kick its ass :confused: . at least we can hide the dragoon helmet now by pressing the button on equipment window to hide hair/wig slot. edit: another option would be to drop pelt to c1 and take hoplite 2 for level 10 finestra and spear lunge. i’d not like losing the 100% uptime on guardian buff tho.

1 Like
#12

Cataphract is as much of a PvP class as Lancer. It’s got a skill that is +20 MS, that’s pretty bad in a bossing situation, does nothing for CMs except helping you get there. On top of the massive amount of CC Cataphract has, and the fact that Rush is better than Cyclone in PvP.

I mean you can choose to PvE with it but it’s very much a PvP class and it builds into the best assassin build in the game.

#13

Honestly, Cataphract is caught in the crossfire between being a mounted class with limited skills usable while mounted, and also being a low-rank class that has really low damage skills.

Pelt3-Cata3-RetiX would be a neat option for agro/cc support option if you could use Reti skills mounted. It’s so mechanically garbage and clunky that you have to dismount to use some skills.

Or also buffing Cata damage skills enough, and removing the sp cost raise on Acrobatic would help make their skills actually deal some damage in a Drag/Lancer dps build, without making Acrobatic too broken for Lancers.

1 Like
#14

Now that you said that, it would’ve been at least slightly OK if Trot and Acrobatic buff doesn’t disappear if you unmount as it would at least make the class usable with non-mount classes despite the clunkiness.

1 Like
#15

I totally understand what you guys are complaining about cataphract. Huge SP consumption, low damage.

However, lancer does insane burst damage to single target imo. So cataphract is mainly a support for lancer.

What are you guys’ cata build? I had the standard sword3-cata3-goon-lancer2. I’m thinking about switching sword3 with pelt2 for guardian.

#16

I tried out sw1-pel2-hop1-cata3-sq3 (before I knew how bad cata damage really is). The problem I face was there was really no content in pve (because pvp is broken anyway) where interruption is an actual benefit.

For example, my friend is a squirenobi. His job is to kill cm bosses for me and (more importantly) bash (with kd) trash waves into my burn spawns. It works because bash kd has a reliable direction. Cata kb/kd is just “everywhere”. If cata kb/kd can be made reliable (1 direction away from the cata) THEN we can see some use on the class aside from the travel speed.

The next complaint I have is with steed charge. Why is it not a clone of cavalry charge? Why the new “re-use window” mechanic instead of just an OH (like with cavalry charge)? Why does it need a cast time instead of just an instant move (like with cavalry charge)?

#17

reduce trot max skill points and reduce max speed, 100% uptime.
Give cata mounted dash along with all the benefit of dashing.
Buff Earthwave animation speed.
reduce acrobatic mount % but make it 100% uptime. Apply 1.5 more value on Cataphract skills

#18

I play catalancer for a while, sw3cata3goon2lancer2 right now and i love it, i have no intention to change, though i considered rete a promising possibility. I am not satisfied with the current preformance of cataphract, but i can deal with it. Here is what i would like to change:

  • Rush overheat to 2, they changed channeling time to half of the one it has now, and increased its damage by 2 times, but Cyclone still has 2 overheats. Increase the damage of Rush further or give another OH. (balance Pouncing Rush Cyclone, so there wont be anymore complaints about this matter)

  • Earth wave is a joke skill, its nowhere near as strong as the one that happened in Hokaido (my condolences), only 3% increase per level, should be boosted to match with other skills.

  • Doom Spike damage is okay by me, but needs one more OH, and a 10 sec debuff duration or an attribute to increase it.

  • Steed Charge why this mechanic lol, i had to install muteki2ex addon to see how long i am able to charge again after the first, now i dont need the addons gauge, it helped me get used to it, but why not just 2 OH??

  • Impaler nice idea but horrible execution, slow and hits low, no aoe buff, delete it or rework the skill

  • Trot: 15 skill point to make it 100% uptime!!! And its the era of buffs with 300sec duration.( T_T) Set the max skill level to 5 or 10 and make buff duration 300 sec all level, only increase movespeed per level.

  • Acrobatic Mount is good but the 100% mp consumption is a bit hard on us, especially if you look at what we buff with that. +50% damage of only riding skill while those skill damage is lacking centuries.

Probably the new swordsman reworks will do miracles. :slight_smile:

#19

I agree on most of the ideas,

to add some that aren’t broken OP: :

  • rush: remove the stun and stagger effect and replace it with knockdowns like shield charging/gigante marcha, this will make a realistic function of cavalry in game which is disrupting enemy formation.

  • doomspike: improve it’s frontal range and remove critical resistance reduction attribute then replace it with defense break similar with peltasa’s umbo thrust,

  • earthwave: reduce animation effect , improve it’s knockdown power similar to wizards earthquake but weaker and reduce it’s overheat from 3 to 2 then double it’s cooldown

  • trot: add attribute that synergizes trot, initiate, and acrobat mount; improve cataphract skill damage scaling them to R8 multipliers similar to murmillo’s helm

Of course these are just suggestions for salvaging this underwhelming and unappealing class. Cataphract is my main since I started way back 2016, I did all of the game’s content from PVE to PVP with this character. I’ve been loathed in PvE content, usually in grinds and contents that requires damage, but it didn’t stop me from playing the class.