Tree of Savior Forum

How to Fix C Blocking, Tanking, DPS

Class and Rank Swordsman
#21

If all you do is press swashbuckling and then C you’re playing incorrectly.
This is an action based game where the majority of attacks are evadable by positioning or jumping.
Since most attacks are evadable, positioning is the first method of defense, most classes will do this from kiting or standing in the backline. For classes that can actively block (Rodelero, Highlander, and Peltasta) this means they can time their Block to when an enemy is attacking them.
Aggro is built through damage and as a result you should be doing damage whenever you can as a tank, and blocking solely to prevent fatal amounts of damage.

Since Peltasta and Highlander both Block (Cross Guard for Highlander and C guard for Peltasta) this means 2/3rd of your options at Rank 2 can block physical damage. Swordsman 2 is a feeder to Swordsman 3 which also cannot block but which naturally progresses into either Cataphract (Has synergy with Restrains Slow and Steed charge, but otherwise the two do not mix well) or Rodelero (which can block).
Pretty much the only Swordsman builds which cannot actively block already are

a) Swordsman C3 - Cataphract builds
b) Swordsman C2 - Hoplite
c) Swordsman C2 - Barbarian.

These are not anomalies as hoplite utilizes 1h skills allowing passive block through a shield, and Barbarian has no weapon type demanded also allowing passive block through a shield.

Swordsman C3 - Cataphract gives up the ability to block for sticking power via Restrains Slow and Trots speed. This is a mobile set-up that is difficult to escape and has synergy between the Slow and Steed Charge getting guaranteed crit. Naturally this is more relevant to potential PvP purpose then PvE.

Even for those without active Block (C2 swordsman into Barb/Hop), the Fencer class prides itself on evades and gains damage for not using a shield anyways which provides another alternative to blocking for the frontline class type. Meaning Swordsman has covered Blocking (Highlander, Peltasta, Rodelero), Mobility (Cataphract and Dashing) as well as evasion (Fencer and Peltasta).
There are already solid defensive options for those tanking and those who are not tanking.

Dedicated dps (normally) would avoid a skill like Swashbuckling because focusing a large amount of targets on yourself as a dps is dangerous whether you are melee or not.
Taking an aggro skill to “be a desired dps” is almost an oxymoron. Slapping a dedicated aggro skill onto every Swordsman class by putting it in R1 is ridiculous and counter-productive for anyone who wants to actually play dps swordsman as you are permanently cementing the entire class tree as tank based. The reality is that dedicated DPS shouldn’t be able to survive pulling with Swashbuckling and instead being worthwhile for their own damage contributions.

Squire and Corsair are both party focused character types in R5 and serve as natural exits to Peltasta and Highlander. There is more then a fair chance that r8 will include new defensive or party focused classes (centurion???) for support focused Swordsmen, however the other class circles are about damage and their validity as damage is whats important, not their ability to be a punching back for 4 other people.

tl;dr.
you’re just muddying the waters with bad suggestions.

2 Likes
#22

tell that to the mass discrimination that class gets

1 Like
#23

What percentage?
I thought it’s only flat damage.

#24

Have you seen a wizard that requests for tankiness? “Hey GM we don’t have enough HP while swordies got 3x our hp at 1/2 of our level. Please, give us a provoke too so we can lure mobs easily and kill it with awesome AoE.” Just in case you ever saw one, party with him. I’m sure you’ll love each other.

You might as well put the great damage dealing AoE of higher class wiz to wiz C1, because when you don’t have those, you’re not really a DPS class. Logic.

There’s this word called “Sacrifice”. I’m certain that searching it would help.

1 Like
#25

By logic also, you can’t seem to cast some magic using a sword. You can’t also propel an arrow from afar with it. It has a pretty short range. If you have an enemy near you, what would you do? Should you make a distance because you can’t take the damage? How would you deal damage then? Taking a damage that should have been for your party mates, even if you have a very low defense, means tanking.

#26

Mate, you’re wrong. Mages have their damage with or without int. That’s why so many of them go full con, and many of them Do have more hp then a swordsman. That’s his point, it’s broken as is.

#27

lets not forget they can get animus when going full con :grinning:

#28

Dear sir that was one nice politique brush off. Kudos mate.

Very well thought out and clear.

However one sticking point is that Corsair lends itself to tanking or dps and does not really provide an out to either, Corsair needs support via hop or barb for some to really cement it in the damage category. sword1~3 pelt/rod 2/3 cor would seem very clunky to me. If this was not what you meant then feel free to clarify.

Jolly roger’s immunity attribute is small, 12.5% in party (maybe), but in a cumulative build it is a solid addition to tanking as well as a distraction for pve situations. For PvP you got your hook and keelhauling, I don’t PvP.

#29

if the swordsman born to be the tank one, why the hell there are various red classes in this tree ? and theres no place for MEELE DPS in ToS ?

#30

You can always build your own character. If you really want to make a DPS swordsman, be prepared to be treated “differently”. But wanting to be a DPS and wanting to be treated like the tankers and get also the benefits from tank class, that’s pure BS. The best way to lure a mobs and make them focus on you is only available on peltasta which is in swordsman tree, so yeah. Swordsmen are the only one who can get that skill making them the tank class.

#31

Those wiz got more HP than swordies because they build con and most swordies refuse to build higher con because they lack on damage output making them build higher str/dex. About wiz doing alot of damage, well, that’s what they’re supposed to do, right? Building more con doesn’t even give them the ability to lure mobs and force them to attack him/her.

#32

Yes, they’re supposed to do damage. But the idea is to sacrifice health to do damage, hence glass cannons. They don’t need to do that because their skills scale simply so much betters then ours. And I don’t mind that. But have them % scale instead so they Have to invest into int and become glass cannons if they want to do the damage they do. Otherwise they have best of both worlds with no sacrifices.

We can’t do that can we?

Edit: and btw, so should our scale. Flat physical attack makes literally no sense.

2 Likes
#33

Yes sacrifice, my full con archer, full con cleric, and full con mage sure do make a lot of sacrifices. Granted they don’t have provoke, but if I don’t go a circle of linker it’s not going to disqualify me from parties. TBH I don’t care too much this is from an archer stand point, I’m complaining for you guys because one of your much needed abilities requires you to devote an entire circle to a class that only has 2 redeeming properties neither of which is damage. It’s obvious that pel and rol were intended to be more on the shield base side that’s fine. However when I see a Doppel with 1 pel just so he can even get party slots I find it hilarious. That they were forced to put rank 2 on the back burner for a chance at more damaging skills so they could get provoke so they could party with me later.

As I said before if I’m party lead and a sword asks to be invited, when I mouse over them if I don’t see pel 1 I kick them no questions asked. Because they don’t have provoke and I would sooner have a dps monk than a swordsman with no swashbuckling.

This game is about choice, not being locked into a decision or ignored later. With mage/cleric/archer I have freedom of choice (are some of them a little sub par sure) but they don’t mean I will be ignored by parties altogether later.

#pel1orkick <—this is the problem the solution is easy.

#34

So wiz can tank? Like they can easily take agro away from their party mates to protect them?

I might change my mind and agree that swordies lacks damage output compared to other classes but ruining one class, by taking its best skill, to fix another is not the best solution.

#35

They can CC it until it’s dead, and as long as party doesn’t attack it before wiz starts CC so they don’t spread they can, yes. Different kind of tanking but funnily enough they can do it.

#36

Well my reply is a little extreme without me really going too in depth, they need to give pel a better identity as a circle in general, the 3 circles need something that offers something for the sword and board it tries to come across as. Of course I don’t think they should remove or move provoke without adding something to pel, while that does solve the immediate problem, then you have a dead job.

#37

What identity problem?
Long and short of Peltasta is that its a defensive class and that has been properly emphasized within its skill set. The class is solid as a rock.
Taunt that increases Max health.
Trading Power for defense.
Another skill that trades power for Block (defense).
A skill that gets stronger when you block (umbo blow).
Peltasta is so thematically on point what is there to complain about.
Then they get the ability to shatter the oppositions defense.
Its identity is extremely clear within each circle, one of the clearest in general.

#38

Peltasta isn’t the problem, it’s literally every other Swordsman class in existence outside of Peltasta. The problem is that the “Attack” classes do laughable damage in comparison to other classes and need to make great compromises in order to not die from having literally everything hit them all at once in the front lines. Only idiots want their damage to be on-par with Archer/Wizard, but the Attack classes still need to be able to do more than the occasional slap on the wrist without getting blown up for it.

#39

I probably should of phrased that differently because I think you kinda missed the point, which is my fault because of the way I worded with my edge master ways (kidding). For everything they want pel to do, it does it well the exception is it’s identity becomes the swordsman’s tree identity as a whole. Swordsman circle 1 2 and 3 could be removed and replaced with Peltasa and called swordsman and the only thing people would miss is pain barrier. Nothing you acquire in the first 3 circles is worth the time you put into getting it, and the entire function of the base class is to be the backbone of the rest of the tree. Especially since you don’t have a choice on taking Rank 1 unless you want a completely different class.

Some could argue that circle 1 wizard is lack luster but the skills still work for what they are intended to do as a backbone class, same goes for archer and cleric…

Keep in mind once again this is coming from an archer.

Now for the people that love tanking and being meat shields protecting the party taking the front line assault kick ass your class is great. But for those of us that wanted dps, yeah no. Percentage scaling doesn’t exist for swordsman which is why around 150 they start to fall off hard and is just keeps drowning. Every other job section either has high flat damage that multi hits or high utility. Swordsman… I mean Peltasa, because that’s what I should start calling the class, has thrust.

#40

Lack of percentage damage, I don’t expect you guys to put out the dps I do as an archer… That would be weird, however no attack buff swordman gets is percent based and I find that incredibly odd.

When I watch a swordsman killing a monster with high hp… I almost feel bad.