how much dex and spr swordman need ?
SPR = none
DEX = depends on your build.
Whatās your build?
sword>highlander>barbarian 3 and i go for doppelsoeldner 3
SW3>Hop>Cor3>Shinobi
highlander need dex100+
other is personal preference
someone else ?? or 100 dex is good ?
100 DEX + 80 by cards.
Expect for attack speed skills and bit of block pen, dex is really weak stat.
You need at least 50% crit chance to make it on par with STR in terms of damage.
Guys how u would spend stats for this build?Hopsair
atm at lvl 223 i have 100 Dex, 50 Str and 102 free stats.
Best joke ever made. Right now DEX is one of the strongest stat. Itās not only for ASPD, itās for Critical Attack and Block Penetration too.
+150 Critical Rate from A2 is enough to crit a lot, there are ton of ways to increase your Critical Rate/Chance by skills or gears. I donāt even talk about Zialciai lvl 15 or Blindsideā¦
Dex weak statā¦
Please donāt be one of these no-SPR purists. Even with 2 different SP potion cooldowns, if youāre one of the few Swordsman classes that are constantly cycling through your skills (ones which have very high SP costs) with no downtime whatsoever, like Highlander3 Doppel3s with all their attributes, or particular builds of Hoplite3 Dragoon2, you are going to run out of SP very easily during potion cooldowns during MVPs or any meaningful sort of content. Certain Swordsman classes should aim for a base (see basic + invested, no gears) of 20 to 40 SPR. This means a possibility of investing 16 to 36 (inb4 people flip their shit about 36, notice thereās a range) points in SPR.
This gives you ~900 SP and ~90 SP Regen, as well as lowers the SP regen tick by 1 or 2 seconds, giving you a comfortable regeneration supply to complement your potion-chugging. inb4 āMUH 32-72 Attack Power / 74-174 Crit Attack!ā
Maybe Iām wrong, but in the dozens of sword builds Iāve rolled, SP was never a problem so thatās based on experience even when partied w/ a Chronomancer (pass).
Youāre probably the first one Iāve heard that recommends SPR for a swordsman build. Maybe youāre right, but I think itās a waste of invested points.
If SP recovery was really a problem, there are dozens of cheap SP recovery headgear on the market as well as these gears (whichever is appropriate to your class) that increases SPR. When youāre in a party, there are some class buffs (Sorc cat, Diev zemyna, Pal restoration attribute, Oracle arcane energy and Kabal ein sof attribute for higher SP pool, etc.) that helps with the issue as well.
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Having those classes on hand, I can definitely see that I shouldnāt have an SP problem on my Sw2 Hop3 Doppel Dragoon2, though I still like my base of 30 SPR for solo or small-party MVPing. I will tell you though the class I was blind-sided by with its SP problems was Sw1 High3 Barb1 Doppel3 with full attributes. After going through a full combo of about 12 skills (some with overheat) in a short time (roughly 10-12 seconds?), I was stunned to find myself at 30% SP down from 100%. Iām just thinking in the long-term that even chugging potions every time theyāre off cooldown, this class is insanely SP-hungry.
I guess that and a few other button-masher builds (though I canāt think of anything else) might be an exception. I can just imagine how full your skill bars are unless you just maxed a few skills.
I would suggest bringing an arcane energy scroll. Having a higher SP pool means you can keep chugging down pots without worrying that some ticks would be wasted, especially on skill rotation downtimes (e.g. waiting for new mobs to spawn, getting knocked away and having to run back to boss, etc.).
Kiesta pots (mystical cube, uphill) can double as backup too since they have separate CD from alche pots.
And thats what i wrote.
ASPD is useless on many builds and block pen can be found in items (you dont need much of it anyway). So those two stats are only good for some builds versus only small % of enemies that have reliable block.
Again you qoute and repeat what I wrote. Your response doesnt change anything in my comment at all.
You still need enough crit rate to have 50% crit chance on bosses for dex to be on par with str in terms of damage. And even that might be a lie. Since critical hits have build-in 50% bonus dmg with work for sure on attack on STR (since they are base dmg) but might not work on attack from DEX (since its only on crit).
So that would mean that 50% of STR attack = critical attack. Basicaly free 1/4 of DEX stat attack in power term turning DEX to even less competetive.
Look at it like this.
STRās contribution is raw atk and accuracy right? That means it contributes to the multiplier you get when factored against def. That multiplier is capped at x100%. That cap can also be reached via gear. The more you improve your character, the less relevant STR becomes.
Then thereās DEXās contribution to c.atk, block pen, and aspd. The only thing that āscalesā here is aspd. Not all builds use it but aa is always there to be used when needed. It also always affects your gear. C.atk is also something not everyone uses (relies on). All players still have c.rate and (almost) every pcs of new gear IMC introduced for physical builds has c.rate (really hate this move). The more you improve your character, the more relevant DEX becomes.
So the only ālastingā benefit STR gives is āsomething for when your gear sucksā. STR will always be better while your gear sucks.
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STR is better untill you reach 50% crit rate depending from the defense of monsters and formula for critical attack (not sure if it effect defense like STR attack and if its multiplied by 50% dmg from critical innate dmg increase).
Its really hard to reach 50% crit rate for many builds, almost impossible even with decent gear.
The new formula for crit rate means that:
200 crit rate = 24% chance to crit
500 crit rate = 42% chance to crit
500 crit rate isnt so easy to get even with full leather gear and it still isnt 50% chance. And thats if you take into account that enemy have ZERO critical resistance.
Also remember that if you invest in crit rate gear/gems you resign from attack/str gear/gems that increase your dmg too.
STR is always relevant, developers just wrote it really badly in dossier. STR make you literally penetrate thru enemy defense and attack = damage itself. 1000 attack means up to 1000 more damage for each 100% multiplier in skill and additionaly to that 500 attack/damage if you criticaly hit.
DEX is block pen, but not many monsters have relevant blocking abilities with I didnt have problems with even without DEX. Its more like PVP stat for me.
DEX have ASPD, but for many builds is useless, so that is up to your build.
DEX give 4 critical attack. If it works as STR attack and penetrate enemy defense (help in it), it might be then good. Since it will create spike damage that will penetrate it better than STR, but without crit procing it will be worse.
If it isnt affected by innate 50% crit dmg increase then it is basicaly 3 critical attack more than STR not 4.
No matter how high you pump your STR it will always increase your dmg, the only not increasing part is the penetration of defense with is capped at 100% dmg.
As far as what Iād consider āneededā
SPR - 0, since glassmole is THE card to aim for youāll likely be using SP pots anyway.
DEX - final value of about 180, this should give you enough block pen that none of the bosses will block you, thereās some monsters that can still block you at this value (hogma), but at most theyāre small annoyance rather than something youād care about.
Though after youāve reached the minimum accuracy/block pen needed, I think itās worth considering putting points into CON/SPR.
CON - From the new WB videos, people without any CON can be expected to get 2-shot by normal hits, so getting enough HP (around 30k) to survive 2 hits would actually improve your survival rate greatly. The extra HP regen will also help slightly with grinding.
SPR - While glassmole is a thing for bursting, for normal grinding you probably wonāt be relying on it that much, so some SP for extra max SP buffer as well as more SP regen could be handy. (in my experience though, doppel c3 will burn through that amount of SP like nothing so do expect to still use SP pot here n there)
Translation
As you approach 50% c.rate the value of STR becomes smaller.
Itās totally up to the player how they want to gear, but the bottom line is still the same. As you approach 50% c.rate the value of STR becomes smaller.
Thatās very true. Everybody at some point starts at crappy gear. That is where STR is most relevant. Again, as you approach 50% c.rate the value of STR becomes smaller. It will still be relevant because STR still gives āsomethingā.
The damage formula is a function of atk not STR. That means you can have other sources of atk other than STR. Letās look at a low lv weapon that gives maybe 100 atk. 330 STR can give ~825 atk. Thatās over 89% of your atk coming from STR. Letās look at a high lv weapon giving 2000 atk. That same 330 STR is nor only contributing 29%. Itās still relevant because it isnāt 0%, but 29% is a lot less than 89% just from improving your atk by 1900 in this case. That difference is so much higher in practice.[quote=āherflikster, post:17, topic:363792ā]
DEX is block pen, but not many monsters have relevant blocking abilities with I didnt have problems with even without DEX. Its more like PVP stat for me.
DEX have ASPD, but for many builds is useless, so that is up to your build.
DEX give 4 critical attack. If it works as STR attack and penetrate enemy defense (help in it), it might be then good. Since it will create spike damage that will penetrate it better than STR, but without crit procing it will be worse.
If it isnt affected by innate 50% crit dmg increase then it is basicaly 3 critical attack more than STR not 4.
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The āuselessnessā of DEX depends completely on whether or not players chose to use it or not. The comparison is between the usefulness of STR vs the usefulness of DEX and not the usefulness of STR vs the uselessness of DEX.
No one is denying this. There are just those of us that realize that the value of STR as a character improves will always decrease. We have at least 2 more ranks to go, ergo 2 more ranks to improve. This also means STR has 2 more ranks to devalue.
- The atk component will always devalue because of itās linear growth vs gear atkās power creep growth.
- The multiplier component will always devalue because of its logarithmic nature (needing more and more STR for the same step up). If I need 2 STR to go up another step instead of the previous 1 STR needed, then the 2 additional STR just lost value.
DEX on the other hand at least has an upward trend. - The c.atk component like STRās atk component will always devalue because of itās linear growth vs gear atkās power creep growth.
- The aspd component will always increase in value because it scale directly with gear atkās cower creep growth.
In a game where character improvement is the endgame, both stats are bad in a sense that they both devalue as you progress. DEX just devalues āslowerā than STR.
The aspd component will always increase in value because it scale directly with gear atkās cower creep growth.
From what I know aspd increase got a softcap so its not multiplier that will increase till infinity.
On the end like you wrote, all stats will devalue alot the higher our gear and level is.
Its thread about stat versus stat where DEX and STR on the end doesnt sem like good stats at all.
The king and queen will probably be CON and SPR since they give alot of HP/SP where gear doesnt supply that so well comparing to atttack stats. Having high cost of skills (R9 and R10) will make your SP consumption much more demanding the same having SP will be the best multiplier for your totall dmg output.
Going back to STR vs DEX, the new attack vs defense formula is putting STR in good position to penetrate enemy defenses as a multiplier damage.
29% more attack is not exactly 29% damage, but 29% damage + value of penetration with might be another 5- 10% totall damage. Add to that gear to attack and not crit rate and you are at another 900 attack and 5-10% totall damage.
Basicaly to deal 100% of your dmg you need to have 15,6 times the attack of enemy defense (so 15600 attack vs 1000 def), so increasing your attack might be never ending story to actualy reach your full potential, STR just help with it and allow you to wear gem/gear that futher improve that.
DEX make you obligated to wear crit rate gear to even use the potential of critical attack.