It’s been a while since I’ve posted on this forum, and after hitting level 200 and finding pretty much nothing else to do, I think it’s about time I give some form of feedback for my experience in iCBT2. I only got to play for a small while in iCBT1, but got a good handle on things in this second closed beta.
Note: this will be a very long post and I will not cover any of the other issues in the CBT; this mainly focuses on the class skills through my progression and how they’re balanced, as I want to give feedback on the viability of certain skills and issues that currently good skills face. This post is also irrespective of any other similar posts floating around. These are just my own personal opinions.
For reference, this is my build: http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/45hyk3oyr7/
Not gonna talk about that build itself or any of those choice justifications, as most of the reasoning is explained in the rest of the post anyway.
I’ve tested all of the skills in every rank with varying degrees of thoroughness, so I’ll go through the skills one by one to give my thoughts, starting with the basic Swordsman skills and ending with the Doppelsoeldner skills.
Added ratings and final thoughts after every skill, as requested by @thebloodyaugust. Starting to get afraid of making it look too cluttered, however.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EzLShf7.png[/img]
Swordsman
Everyone starts as a Swordsman, so there isn’t much to say. I like to think it’s a middle of the road class with strong starting options that keep it ahead of the pack early on. You’ll be able to overkill things early on, which is more than I can say for the likes of some of the other starting classes.
Thrust: I had originally taken this skill to start with, but it proved lackluster even very early on. Thrust’s attack animation is very stiff and you’ll often find yourself wishing you could jump attack as deftly as you can with regular auto attacks. On top of this, the base damage it puts out isn’t great. When used with a spear, it has more or less the exact same range as a regular attack.
The one saving grace of this skill is the lack of cooldown and the potential of having a fully attributed attack skill to spam, but I just didn’t find it worth it for the purpose of a limited closed beta. It does, however, always deal piercing damage regardless of weapon. You can use this skill to deal with enemies that are weak to piercing, but even then it’s not too great. Especially unappealing if you’re aiming to be a Hoplite, since your attacks are likely going to deal piercing damage by default.
Rating: 5/10
I might take this skill again in the long haul. The attribute bonus on a 0 cooldown skill shows real promise, and it can benefit from Spear Lunge’s damage bonus as well, but as it is now, I just don’t think it is worth it.
Bash: The other basic swordsman attack skill, and it’s pretty good for what it is. It’s a counterpart to Thrust in that it will always deal slash damage regardless of weapon and can be used to deal with enemies that are weak to said damage. Unlike Thrust, this attack also has a wide AoE and can knock enemies down when the appropriate attribute is taken.
The knockdown aspect will always be useful, even after Bash’s damage falls to the wayside, and this is why I much prefer to it Thrust.
Rating: 8/10
This is a fun skill to get overkills with early on. (Kepas, I’m looking at you.) The knockdown ensures it can be useful even at very high levels. If you’re gonna bother with only one attack skill from the C1 Swordsman selection, make it this one.
Gung Ho: I simply did not take this skill because its effect cannot be used in tandem with Guardian. However, like Concentrate, the extra damage it can afford is especially appealing with the many multi-hit skills that are available to a Hoplite-Doppel build. The defense penalty makes it a wee bit more unappealing than Concentrate for me.
Rating: N/A
It’s hard to really give an opinion on this skill, since I didn’t even bother with it. It can stack with Concentrate and is more attractive early on than later for some builds. It’s not a bad skill by any means, however.
Concentrate: This is a very simple skill that will add set damage to every one of your attacks until the maximum number of hits the skill allows is exhausted. Concentrate’s attribute is very cheap to max out, and caps at +111 fixed damage for 10 hits at level 5.
A small but much appreciated quirk of the skill is that every skill use only counts as a single hit. This means that multi-hit skills like Stabbing or Cyclone can be used without regard for wasting all the hits in one go. Incidentally, those multi-hit skills benefit the most from Concentrate. The seemingly small damage bonus can add up very quickly with those multi-hit AoE skills. Overall, I like it, but its viability in the long term is questionable.
Rating: 7/10
This is a solid skill at any currently available level range. Even on level 190+ enemies, it can make the difference between not killing or killing a group of enemies. Hard to argue with more DPS, though I’m not sure if I’ll actually end up taking this again on release, or ditch it for the allure of an attributed Thrust.
Pain Barrier: This might sound strange, but this is probably my favorite C1 Swordsman skill. It will remain useful practically forever, especially for a Hoplite.
All it does is prevent hitstun for a small duration, but this also means it will prevent your skills from being interrupted. Namely long skills that deal their damage over their entire duration, like Stabbing or Cyclone. There’s nothing that sucks more than having your precious Stabbing get interrupted and then going into cooldown with nothing to show for it.
However, I really hate that it doesn’t actually stop some sources of knockdown. (Mostly bosses.) Luckily, this has been addressed in a recent patch for the KR version.
Rating: 8/10
This is an essential skill for a Hoplite, really. I will almost always make sure I have Pain Barrier active before using Stabbing, and I don’t want to imagine life without it.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/hXqaMhQ.png[/img]
Peltasta
Choosing Peltasta at rank 2 will set you up for the questionably perilous process of leveling to rank 3 with a class that isn’t focused on damage. However, it pays off later on and synergizes well with Hoplite and Doppelsoeldner. Needless to say, you can kiss overkills and good damage goodbye.
Peltasta, however, is quite an excellent C1 wonder in that a large heap of its helpful attributes are available at just a C1 investment. The most important one being the ability to guard while equipped with a shield.
Umbo Blow: This is a neat skill and will be a mainstay while you’re stuck in the C1 Peltasta phase. It’s a bit slow, and the damage isn’t impressive, but it’s a good source of strike damage around a time where there are a lot of strike-weak enemies.
Umbo Blow also has a knockdown attribute, and it’s a good alternative source of knockdown to Bash. I say alternative because Umbo Blow will knock enemies much, much farther away and in greater number than Bash will.
A hidden aspect of the skill is being able to deal bonus damage to enemies that have been blocked, and it makes it a little more viable to use in desperate situations when coupled with the knockdown attribute. But really, the knockdown is what will keep Umbo Blow relevant later on. The damage it deals simply isn’t great.
Rating: 8/10
In terms of utility, Umbo Blow is like Bash’s big brother. They both have their uses, and despite being similar, they do not overlap. Umbo Blow knocks things farther away than Bash will, and it deals a different damage type altogether.
There’s no reason not to take this skill as a C1 Peltasta, as there isn’t much of a competing selection.
Rim Blow: Basically, take Umbo Blow and make it faster but remove the ability to knock down. It also has a narrower range than Umbo Blow, so it’s not as useful in mob situations either.
Rim Blow is very fast and both charges can be used in about a second. It will knock anything it hits back, and it deals bonus damage to frozen or petrified enemies. Sounds decent on paper, but underwhelming in practice.
I appreciated having Rim Blow while leveling Peltasta because it is yet another overheat you can spam, but I later reset skills and removed it from my build. It’s just not as useful as Umbo Blow is later on due to the lack of a knockdown, which is unfortunate.
Rating: 6/10
I can’t say I’m a fan, and I found it hard to justify having it on my bar when I’d rather auto attack more often than not. It’s a little more friendly to use than Thrust is, but it’s just not very impressive.
Swash Buckling: This is probably the reason most people consider taking Peltasta at all, and it’s a damned fine reason too. At level 5, Swash Buckling will aggro 11 targets from just beyond the edge of the screen with a press of a button. In party play, this can also be used to take the boss’s attention away from someone else.
However, there seems to be a rather annoying bug where enemies aggroed from very far away will sometimes not move towards you until you approach them. I’d like to think this is a bug and not intended, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were. This skill has been somewhat nerfed in comparison to its iCBT1 incarnation, as it no longer steals aggro from bystanders not in your party.
Rating: 9/10
There is absolutely no reason to not take this skill as a Peltasta. It’d be like ordering a hamburger with no patty.
There is an insane amount of utility in this skill, and it will continue to make your life easier well into the endgame. I doubt anything will change that.
Guardian: This skill wouldn’t be too great if it weren’t for its attribute, and that’s really all you’ll be taking this skill for in the end. Unattributed, Guardian will only lower your physical damage slightly while increasing your defense. It has infinite upkeep at level 5.
With the maxed attribute, Guardian will also increase your evasion by a solid 18%. This makes a noticeable difference and affords more flexibility in how you can choose to tank. This evasion bonus will also stack with Stabbing’s evasion bonus, making your evasion shoot up into sky high levels.
Rating: 7/10
It’s a decent enough skill, but it’s really more like a consolation for going Peltasta than something you’d go out of your way for. As Peltasta’s C1 loadout is rather limited, there’s no reason not to take it for the bare minimum the attribute requires.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/HOdx3E7.png[/img]
Hoplite
Hoplite is a class that is akin to an ugly caterpillar. You will start weak and feeble, munching on the scraps of much more capable classes at this point (Barblanders, check your privilege), but if you stick with it you will eventually emerge as a beautiful butterfly.
Damage at C1 won’t blow your socks off, but it is leagues better than Peltasta. The class picks up at C2 with the addition of Spear Lunge and applies finishing touches at C3, setting you up for basically anything after that point.
The main problem with this class, however, is the fact that the majority of its skills are underwhelming. It suffers through a very sad situation where the majority of its worthwhile skills are acquired at C1, so there’s little to actually look forward to while progressing through the ranks.
Stabbing: As a Hoplite, this is your bread and butter damage skill. It will deal a punishing amount of hits very quickly over its duration, and it scales as well as a you’d expect from any multi-hit skill. Very few enemies will be able to survive a full Stabbing, and anything that is weak to pierce will be annihilated. It has slightly shorter range than a regular spear attack, but with a good AoE ratio backing it, it can clear large clumps of mobs in short order.
It lasts roughly 4 seconds and is only held back by no overheat and a 40 second cooldown. Understandable, considering the power of this skill.
There are a few pitfalls with this skill, however, and they’re issues I hope can be addressed by IMC. For one, you’re pretty much locked into the direction you cast this skill in, meaning that if you kill the thing you were aiming at but there are some mobs to the side of you, you’re wasting the rest of the skill. I’d greatly appreciate the ability to rotate while this skill is active, so I can adjust my killzone and not be left stabbing the air like an idiot.
There is a glitch that can occasionally happen where you can change your direction after the start of the skill by mashing movement keys shortly after it starts, but it’s not reliable and is of course unintended.
There is yet another glitch that might or might not be lag-related. After using the skill to kill a number of mobs, it will simply stop doing any damage whatsoever, even if more mobs wander into its hitbox. This might be the AoE ratio capping out, though.
Rating: 9/10
This skill is a hallmark of the Hoplite class. It’s what you take pride and joy in while parading with your spear and shield. To not take it would be foolish and shameful.
Pierce: The other main damage skill for the Hoplite. Deals a single moderate strength attack that multiplies in effectiveness the larger the enemy is. One hit on small targets, two on medium, and three on large (four with the attribute).
Despite the seemingly multi-hit nature of the skill, any extra hits it deals count as one attack. This makes it an excellent overkiller for weaker mobs under the right conditions.
Pierce starts off underwhelming but shows its worth with more investment. Really requires Spear Lunge and some attribute pumping to shine.
However, I do think that the 33 second cooldown is a bit excessive, as this skill has no overheat capability. It’s just one use and you’re on that 33 second cooldown. Giving it an overheat and extending the cooldown to 40 seconds (so it’s in tandem with piercing) or just lowering the cooldown to 20 seconds would both be fine options that would make the early Hoplite game a little more bearable.
Rating: 8/10
Considering Hoplite’s other offensive options, it’s hard to argue against this skill. That does not mean it is without its faults, just that it soars above its competition.
To put it in perspective, this is a skill that is basically competing against the likes of other staples like Cartar Stroke. It could definitely use some loving.
Finestra: I do believe that Finestra is the one non-negotiable part of being a Hoplite. Maxing it is a must, and it’s clear why that is: critical rate. More critical rate means less points spent on DEX, which means more raw damage for you through STR investment.
Besides this, it has a few other good qualities. The block bonus makes you an extra tough nut to crack if you ever find the need to turtle, and the Finestra Splash attribute gives you a nice +3 AoE Attack Ratio bonus while Finestra is active, at the cost of a heavier evasion penalty. At Hoplite C2, Finestra gains 100% upkeep.
Plus, it changes your stance into a cool overhead stabby thing.
The evasion penalty is unfortunate, but you’ll just have to rely on blocking and Peltasta tankiness that much more. If you didn’t take Peltasta, well, you’re on your own.
Rating: 9/10
This is basically what makes you a Hoplite and what makes you worthwhile in Linker parties. Not taking it would be like ordering a hot dog without a frank!
Synchro Thrusting: I was so let down by the skill, and I struggle to find anything good about it.
For one, it has a terrible hitbox. Seriously, even if you’re swarming with mobs, it has trouble hitting the amount it should be able to hit. It also has a 35 second cooldown, inexplicably longer than Pierce, given its lack of any overheat and its disappointing power.
It’s an interesting idea on paper, since Synchro Thrusting actually scales off of the defense of the equipped shield (multiplies the equipped shield’s defense by 5 and adds that as attack power to the skill), but it’s executed so poorly that it’s hard to even justify a single point in this skill.
I’d rather this skill be kept at is it is, damage calculation wise, and be given an overheat with a 30 second or less cooldown. Then give it some special property where the user counts as guarding while using this skill, and let it be able to be used directly out of a guard as well. Just take the idea of marrying your spear with your shield and run with it, IMC. As it is, it’s just very underwhelming.
Rating: 4/10
This skill needs a lot of work, or possibly a rework altogether. It is very lackluster and hard to justify when compared to your other options as a Hoplite.
That said, it has some potential if it ever gets around to getting buffed. Personally didn’t waste a single point on this skill.
Long Stride: I was disappointed by this skill as well. It’s certainly a cool idea, to jump from enemy to enemy and initiate combat at melee range right off the bat, but it’s tough to actually use in any meaningful way.
I’m not sure if it has anything to do with the fact that I play in keyboard mode, but this skill cannot be finely aimed in the way that would justify its use as a utility skill. I found myself just using it at point blank for a tiny bit of extra damage every now and then, more than anything else.
It will instead leap towards whatever enemy has been locked onto, so one must go out of their way to find an enemy in a convenient spot to lock onto before using this skill. It’s just not very intuitive.
On top of this, Long Stride’s damage isn’t mindblowing and is held back by a punishing 59 second cooldown and no overheat. It also shares a hitbox deformity with Synchro Thrusting in that it has a decent base AoE ratio but rarely hits the amount of enemies you’d expect. At the very least, any enemies that you do hit are knocked down.
I’d greatly appreciate an aiming circle for this skill and a radial hitbox. Currently, the hitbox seems to be a frontal cone, and it just makes a difficult to use skill even more difficult to use. A lower cooldown and/or overheat wouldn’t hurt either.
Rating: 5/10
Long Stride desperately needs some sort of buff or refinement. A C2 skill this cool does not deserve being a second rate class filler.
It has some merit, as it can occasionally work as you’d expect. It can be used to get in and out of trouble with some swift and fancy lock-on work, but it’s too much effort for too little a return.
Spear Lunge: After much disappointment, we come across another core skill for the Hoplite. Spear Lunge is a very fast, very simple two-handed spear thrust that debuffs any enemies hit by it with roughly 100% weakness to piercing attacks for 6 seconds.
Spear Lunge will basically double your damage for 6 seconds, and it synergizes well when used before a Stabbing or a Pierce. This skill marks a turning point for Hoplite in C2, and is definitely a must have. It’s also a unique example of an actual overheat skill in the Hoplite library. I was starting to think such a thing wasn’t possible. The low cooldown means it can be used whenever Pierce or Stabbing are ready, if you’re careful with its usage.
No complaints about this skill, save for the questionable decision to not make the debuff’s duration scale with level investment. It encourages the existence of Spear Lunge as a “1 point wonder” and doesn’t sit well with me in terms of balance. Not a huge deal, though. It serves its purpose as is.
Rating: 7/10
Spear Lunge is a relatively new addition to the Hoplite skill library, and it honestly shows. It feels like the buff equivalent of a door wedge: a loosely (if not just lazily) designed skill that only serves one purpose.
That said, it’s definitely not a bad skill and deserves a spot in any Hoplite build. I just wish it were a little more fleshed out so it’d be more than just that skill you use before Pierce or Stabbing.
Throwing Spear: This is yet another skill that sounds awesome on paper but turned out mediocre. This especially hurts because this is the Hoplite C3 skill. One would expect to be rewarded for dedication to sticking to a class for so long, but unfortunately won’t find much in this skill.
My main complaint with Throwing Spear is the same problem I have with Long Stride. It’s too imprecise and a bit underwhelming for the cost of entry. At a 54 second long cooldown and no overheat, it better be at least as good as Stabbing, right?
Well, on one hand, Throwing Spear sports a decent base attack power that starts at 565 and ends at 1044 when capped with just 5 points, however it doesn’t also have multi-hit capability like Stabbing and Pierce do. It’s tied with Long Stride in the AoE department, and is a bit better at landing a hit on all targets in range.
With its unique attribute, it also has a good (though not 100%) chance to bind anything hit by it for 7 seconds, which might explain its prohibitive cooldown, but doesn’t work well with the way the skill operates. In keyboard mode, it cannot be aimed and will instead throw the spear at the current locked target. I ended up using this in the same way I used Long Stride: at point blank with only minimal expectations for the outcome. To add insult to injury, you will also suffer a debuff until you retrieve your spear, wherever it lands.
All this skill needs to be fun and worthwhile to use is a precision aiming circle and some sort of multi-hit capability. Perhaps make the spear bounce a bit after it lands? I don’t think it’s worth taking as it is now, not even as a utility skill.
Rating: 4/10
On its own merits, it isn’t TERRIBLE, but it is absolutely embarrassing that this is the Hoplite C3 skill. It is outdone in damage by either Stabbing or Pierce, and even Spear Lunge is a more attractive single point investment.
It can still occasionally be fun to use, but any build heavily focused around this skill is without a doubt gimmicky. Sad to say I skipped this altogether.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/hnKUzXT.png[/img]
Doppelsoeldner
In the context of the Peltasta-Hoplite build, the addition of Doppelsoeldner is the icing on the cake and then some. It has a few good abilities, but they’re very good and work well with Hoplite’s attributes. I have high hopes for this class’s further circles, but I really don’t think it could turn out too badly since it already starts strong at C1.
In general, you will be afforded a ton of flexibility in the way you play through the buffs you pick up, which is also nice. Want to go all out DPS? Activate Deeds of Valor. Want to evasion tank? Use Guardian. Want to block stall? Use Finestra. Mixing and matching works, too. Not synergetic in all cases, but certainly complementary.
Punish: This is a very quirky skill that I can’t exactly say is worth it. The low 18 second cooldown is nice, but it’s not an overheat skill. It absolutely cannot hit standing enemies.
Any enemies you wish to target with this skill must be knocked down on the floor. Through the build I took, this means I have to use either Bash or Umbo Blow to knock things down before using Punish on them. (Mordschlag also works, thankfully.) Umbo Blow is less than ideal for this because it knocks things very far away. Chasing things down just to use Punish on them is more annoying than anything.
I’d rather this skill keep its current power and be able to hit standing enemies, and then gain an additional damage bonus on enemies that are on the floor. An attribute to set it apart would be nice as well. It doesn’t need much more tweaking, really. Another case of the idea was cool, but execution was bad.
Rating: 5/10
This feels like a very half-baked attack skill. It’s extremely limited, if not gimmicky, and it doesn’t offer much even when it works as intended. I’d say it needs a rework to be viable or desirable.
Deeds of Valor: This is an awesome buff that can turn you into a killing machine at the drop of a hat. When activated, it immediately grants the basic 10% attack power increase and defense penalty. Further levels in the skill allow you to gain more 10% stacks, up to 50% at level 5.
It’s worth noting that I don’t think this skill affects the actual skill attack power, just your own attack power as is displayed on the stats screen. This means that, once again, it scales better with multi-hit skills like Stabbing and Cyclone than with strong single hits.
The defense penalty is worth watching out for, but who doesn’t love a little bit of risk every now and then?
Rating: 8/10
The berserker mentality incarnated as a buff skill. It’s fun to make your damage numbers fly up with a gamble, and it’s entirely viable in how much of a difference it makes. I’d say it’s a must-have.
This is right behind Cyclone on the Doppelsoeldner totem pole.
Mordschlag: Another interesting and quirky skill, but I think this is a bit more viable for general use than Punish is.
After a short windup, Mordschlag will initiate a reverse handle smack with the currently equipped weapon that knocks things down and deals decent damage. Decent, but not spectacular. It will always deal strike damage. It is thankfully an overheat skill as well. It also sports an interesting attribute that causes it to deal critical damage to enemies with cloth armor.
It’s easy to see that Mordschlag was made to be used with Punish, but it works decently enough on its own. The problem is that this is honestly closer to a beefed up Umbo Blow or Bash than anything else, and that isn’t particularly appealing at the lofty heights of rank 6. Especially when it’s competing against the likes of Cyclone. It ramps up in damage extremely fast, being at 1398 attack at level 5, but the game currently favors fast multi-hits over stronger single hits. (Another issue entirely.)
Would be a swell skill placed in perhaps a lower rank class, but not very impressive otherwise.
Rating: 6/10
This skill isn’t terrible, but it’s just disappointing that something like this made it into a rank 6 class. I can’t even really say it needs much of a buff, but perhaps a change of direction or design. Skipped it in favor of Double Pay Earn.
Double Pay Earn: One of those skills that just explains itself. You get double EXP and drop rate for enemies killed within the limit of attacks. The limit goes up with level investment.
This skill does not work like Concentrate, in that the hits are not counted per-skill, and every single tick in Stabbing or Cyclone will count against the hit limit. Hard to use, but has a place when fighting bosses or rare enemies, or simply grinding.
Rating: 7/10
This skill won’t make as much of a difference as you might think or want, but it’s a nice little cherry on the Doppelsoeldner cupcake. I’d say whether or not you’d want this over another attack skill depends on preference.
Cyclone: Possibly my favorite skill in the entire game right now. Unattributed, you will simply spin in place and deal roughly 3 hits per second in an area of effect. The damage and duration of the skill both go up with investment.
With the attribute, however, you can actually move around while spinning. You basically become a mobile AoE of death. It has a decent AoE ratio, allowing it to clear crowds with unequaled ease. This skill will also always deal slashing damage, so it rounds out a piercing-centric playstyle nicely. This does mean that Cyclone cannot take advantage of Spear Lunge’s damage bonus, though. The most baffling thing about this skill is also why it’s so great: it has an overheat.
It’s really puzzling that a skill like this is allowed an overheat but so many cruddier Hoplite skills aren’t given the same treatment. Hell, even Punish doesn’t have an overheat. It is held back a bit by a 45 second long cooldown, but it’s justified here with how great Cyclone is.
I’m not complaining, though! This is a well designed and fun to use skill, and I think a good example for the sort of standard most skills should aim for: unique in function and very effective.
Rating: 10/10
You can be the Tasmanian devil you always wanted to be.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/cGlcVUJ.png[/img]
That’s all, folks! Thanks for reading if you stuck around. I might pretty this up or add to it at some point if I find the will.
). And please, in bosses, don’t make it target the totems…