1.What i show in this topic is that stabbing is better than Sept Etoiles in damage(more better combine with Preparation).Will you not use Sept Etoiles in rank10?
2.Stabbing is the most hits number skill among the swordman classes. The skill with more hits can gain more damage with atk increase. Which means it will far more power than Sept Etoiles/Fleche and other fencer skills in the future.
3.There is no class using 1- hand spear in rank8.
(The most important reason i choose stabbing is because i may feel regret in the future if i dont choose it)
You are wrong with this, Pouncing deals the most hits in all swordsman, Rush and Cyclone possibly in second.
I actually will, I consider Sept better than Stabbing as it really doesnât come with disadvantages.
Itâs really up to you if you like Stabbing, but it has already been stated here the disadvantage of giving up 1 rank just for 1 skill. You are trading off a lot more than actually gaining.
It locks you into place which is never an ideal situation for a swordsman, even with PB, most specially in an area full of magic mobs, or magic WB.
Dragoons can weapon swap to 1h spear against medium enemies now they gain advantages against Medium, Large and Boss enemies. Heck even Murmillo skills can be used with spears now.
Cyclone is not a damge skill, it help other skill.
But you may right.
I should say:Stabbing is the most hits number pierce skill among the swordman classes.
If you use Sept Etoiles, you should either use Stabbing, thats what i want to say.
Dragoons will never use 1h spear when killing boss. And what about a mix of mid and large mobs?
if you are a Dragoons, which weapon will you enhance and transcendence?
2H or 1H?
Just for simplified comparison sake Iâm using circle1 of classes.
Skills that carry over usefulness for Fencer from:
[details=Hop1]
Stabbing: 15 hits Great for bossing, 25s cd
Pierce: 1/2/3/4hits(size dependant) subpar damage outside bossing, can cause(10%) 6s bleed(+3s cd), 30s cd
Both are pierce type damage that can be increased by RapierMastery and Epee[/details]
Barb1
Cleave: slash debuff(5s), +50crit(5s), 3overheat, 16s cd
HelmChopper: active stun, 2overheat, 20s cd
High1
Crossguard: block(scales with str), pierce debuff, 0cd
Crown: shock debuff(scales with str) duration increases with level, 30s
CartarStroke: monster strike damage, 2overheat, 21s cd
Indeed Fencers get 2 0cd skills(one of which can block), def ignore(pierce) debuff, a crit reduction debuff and a pierce type damage spike boost, but not all those have 100% uptime, you gotta have some thing else outside being pierce overlord.
Bottom line Fencer3 is strong and plenty enough to just rotate their skills alone, youâll just now need is buff yourself up.
I believe yaâ, I have a HopFencer myself, but the thing is, other class/builds can offer more.
This is so wrong Iâm sorry. Cyclone is a DAMAGE skill, it is one of the best in all swordsman classes, many would disagree with you here. (and it doesnât lock you into place, has 2 overheats)
And what I meant is I would rather use Sept than Stabbing as it doesnât come with disadvantages unlike Stabbing.
Yes they will never use 1h spear against boss, but they can in grinding situations as most mobs are medium sized. That is why I mentioned weapon swap.
Of course you will transcend 2h spear, but will you neglect the bonus given to you by 1h spear?
Shinobi is dead in rank8. Shinobi rank8 with Cyclone cant do more boost than hop2-fencer. You can compare the vedio in youtube.
2.if you transcend 2h spear, why you use 1h spear for 10% more damage in grinding?
First of all why Shinobi? Why not Doppel? With Doppel3 you get Level15 Cyclone and it is MASSIVE.
Besides Shinobi isnât really that dead, Spear-Shinobis possibly, but have you seen a Shinobi-Murmillo?
First itâs not 10%, itâs 4% per attribute level with maximum level of 5, which means 20%.
If it is that easy to transcend items, then by all means never use 1h spear. A lot of players donât even have transcended items. And besides you wonât be using the same gear forever right?
Anyway we are straying away from the topic. If you really like Stabbing then go for it, imo itâs just wrong to say Stabbing is important to Fencer, Iâd say it is optional for Fencers.
SorryâŚI regard that as cloneâŚ
Shinobi-Murmillo is what i mean. Not so power, even more terrible in soloing quest.
Transcend items is so normal in rank8 and more.
What i mean âStabbing is importantâ is as the topic, you can deal more damage using stabbing. Its a title easy to make dispute and thatâs the effort i want.
But want i want to say is(for fencer)[quote=ârhonin.wang, post:64, topic:324608â]
Hop is not such a horrible class as people think
[/quote]
Who would even use such a suicidal build like Dopp>Shin?
Why not both? If I had my own HopGoon, gears and time Iâd trancend them both. 2h spears attribute only apply boost on large and boss monsters so 1h spears are better outside boss(MONSTER) hunting.
Pretty much sums it up.
Itâs not bad(to me) but itâs not the shining star of hope either. I mean youâre betting on just one single skill from the circle, it just feels like a waste if it just for one skill.
prep+stabbing is really a powerful skill combo(show upper).Besides you can also use sept etoiles after stabbing.
prep and stabbing should be bundled together.
and this is what I meant of preferring Sept over Stabbing. Cyclone, Pouncing and Rush are the better channeling skills than Stabbing.
it is powerful IF and only IF you donât get knocked back or CCâed by magic.
again what we are trying to point out is that it is such a waste to get ONE rank for ONE skill when you could be getting so much more from other classes. No one is doubting the damage that hop2/fencer2 could provide now but with Rank 8, it changes everything. Hoplite shines even better now with Dragoon, and Fencer is pretty much a standalone class that doesnât rely on previous classes.
Pouncing is a skill takes up 10s and slash damage that required you to keep moving. 10s channeling means Cleave only cover half of the time. Keeping moving means you canât take all damage to the same mobs. Slash damage not boosted by almost fencerâs skill.
Pouncing is a c3 skill, stabbing is a c1 skill. Pouncing need to be used with PB because itâs too long.
Cyclone and Rush is not to be used by fencer3 in rank8.
And again, dont compare dragoon with fencer, they are totally not playing the same role.
Why we donât like stabbing (Iâm not saying itâs bad, just saying why we donât like it)
It takes one whole circle, this locks you out of barb3, HL3(if you took pelt), or corsair as a r5 utility
We need more variety on attacks, composee provides ALL your pierce needs, just go with Prep-Etoiles for the initial burst, Prep-Stabbing then etoiles is better, but overall all of them are pierce attacks AND are followed up with composee if you need more pierce
Epee no longer has 100% uptime, this makes slash types relevant because pierce attacks suffer 25% penalty on cloth, this makes barb3/HL3 a viable choice because they offer multiple slash attacks (Barb only pouncing+stuns, but you get warcry in return) HL has vertical slash and skull swing for your slash attacks.
Also there are several bosses where stabbing can be bad to use, specially bosses that move a lot (saalus harpeia, mineloader, ellaganos, etc)
this doesnât make sense. it can. unlike Stabbing that makes you stuck and are vulnerable to damage, knockback and CCs, with Pouncing you can move which means you can move around the boss to AVOID damage BUT still continue to do damage. Lunge + Cleave is a huge boost to slash damage, even if itâs only for 3-4 seconds thatâs really alot.
if you think Stabbing doesnât need PB then you are mistaken, at least with Pouncing you can still continue doing the skill EVEN if you are knocked back.
This is the kind of trade off we are talking about, if you are to make a SW-Pelt-Barb2-Hoplite, you are losing Pouncing, better Warcry and Frenzy just for 1 skill. Same with the others like what Iâve mentioned in my previous post.
My point with this is that they are the better channeling skills against stabbing as you can move by using them and avoid knockback/damages.
They actually are, both can be offensive tanks, the difference is the other one emphasizes on block, and the other one on evasion. Both are WB killers now in Rank 8. Again the point with this is that Stabbing works BETTER with DRAGOON than FENCER.
You are not getting the point that we are trying to explain. You are too fixated on Stabbingâs benefits and cannot see the downside of using and getting it. Which is really a lot.
As a parting reply and this will be my last one (itâs impossible to argue with someone who is too biased on his opinions and cannot and will not at least try to understand what others are trying to say), Hoplite-Fencer isnât so bad, but that was before Rank 8. When Rank 8 was released, it changed everything. If one is building a Hoplite-Fencer, you must really be sure if you want to trade off what other classes can offer you against one skill. One WHOLE RANK for ONE SKILL. If yes, then by all means go for it.
Thatâs all. No offense OP. You can build and play what you like as long as you are having fun with it.
How could I help people who are already lost ? And itâs not like tons of topics were talking about the real MVP build for bossing (in Swordman tree).
Not only Fletcher, leather boss or not, and Fletcher is not the best class for bosses from Archer tree (not saying they are bad at bossing). I already said why on another topic, I donât wanna bring this here again.
All my logic is already shown.
And I will reorganize all of these here to prevent the endless argument.(But itâs really helpful to my English communication )
0: Do whatever you like!
1.Q:Stabbing is not so power now or in the future.
A:[quote=ârhonin.wang, post:73, topic:324608â]
prep+stabbing is really a powerful skill combo(show upper).Besides you can also use sept etoiles after stabbing.
[/quote]
If you think you have enough pierce skill or really like to use other type skill or Attaque Compose then return 0.
2.Q: Is it Hop1 worth to loss the chance of Hl3 and Barb3?
A:
To deal with this, compare with the skill Barb3 and HL3 to Hop1 is needed.
I have shown my opinon of HL3 skill and Barb3.
And Pouncing has soooo long cooldown.
You can get Frenzy, Warcry and Seism at barb2 but will lose some damage.
For these skill:
Seism is good aoe skill.
If you really like Barb3 or Hl3 or think what i said is wrong, return 0.
3.Q: Fencer is lack of Aoe ability.
A:
if you really want to make up Aoe ability.Beside Seism:
And IMO:[quote=ârhonin.wang, post:58, topic:324608, full:trueâ]
The reason why i dont care about fencerâs aoe ability is because of the role fencer is in pve.When cleaning mobs in grinding and dungeon, you are an evasion tank supplying taunt. You will never have the aoe capability that comparable to wizard and archer.(and no one care your aoe ability)
WB, dungeon boss, Siaulai is the real place you can be a dps.
[/quote]
If you think you need pouncing or only 10 lvl Seism can make up your aoe ability, just return 0.
4.Q:Fencer need more types of damage skill.
No, i think fencer has many powerful pierce skills and pierce buff and pierce debuff and pierce attribute. I dont need other type skills at all. Even dealing with plate enemy(little high damage strike skills) and even with Epee no longer has 100% uptime.
If you think multiple damage skills is important, you can choose barb2 or hl2 or corsair or return 0.
5.Q:Stabbing is hard to use/ some boss is always running.
A: yes, and pouncing is also hard to use if you want to take full damage.
How to use and when to use is depending on you.
If you think stabbing is not suit for you, plz return 0.
If there are other questions i didnât cover, just tell me, i may add.
In this forum, people always think stabbing and Hop awful to fencer.
But in the forum of Taiwan and China, barb3-fencer has little supporters.
This forum needs more different voice. The reason you are not a hop-fencer cant be the reason i dont like it.
I tried to use a barb-fencer and abandoned in barb3. Everyone has their prefer and the people want to play fencer need more voices.
I really like this guide,this guide make me begin thinking of Hop.
But @minjuleex stop updating, maybe becaues without supporter.
? And itâs not like tons of topics were talking about the real MVP build for bossing (in Swordman tree).