Tree of Savior Forum

Hoplite(at least c1) is viable to Fencer

and this is what I meant of preferring Sept over Stabbing. Cyclone, Pouncing and Rush are the better channeling skills than Stabbing.

it is powerful IF and only IF you don’t get knocked back or CC’ed by magic.

again what we are trying to point out is that it is such a waste to get ONE rank for ONE skill when you could be getting so much more from other classes. No one is doubting the damage that hop2/fencer2 could provide now but with Rank 8, it changes everything. Hoplite shines even better now with Dragoon, and Fencer is pretty much a standalone class that doesn’t rely on previous classes.

Pouncing is a skill takes up 10s and slash damage that required you to keep moving. 10s channeling means Cleave only cover half of the time. Keeping moving means you can’t take all damage to the same mobs. Slash damage not boosted by almost fencer’s skill.
Pouncing is a c3 skill, stabbing is a c1 skill. Pouncing need to be used with PB because it’s too long.
Cyclone and Rush is not to be used by fencer3 in rank8.

And again, dont compare dragoon with fencer, they are totally not playing the same role.

I think you are not getting the point.

Why we don’t like stabbing (I’m not saying it’s bad, just saying why we don’t like it)

  • It takes one whole circle, this locks you out of barb3, HL3(if you took pelt), or corsair as a r5 utility
  • We need more variety on attacks, composee provides ALL your pierce needs, just go with Prep-Etoiles for the initial burst, Prep-Stabbing then etoiles is better, but overall all of them are pierce attacks AND are followed up with composee if you need more pierce
  • Epee no longer has 100% uptime, this makes slash types relevant because pierce attacks suffer 25% penalty on cloth, this makes barb3/HL3 a viable choice because they offer multiple slash attacks (Barb only pouncing+stuns, but you get warcry in return) HL has vertical slash and skull swing for your slash attacks.
  • Also there are several bosses where stabbing can be bad to use, specially bosses that move a lot (saalus harpeia, mineloader, ellaganos, etc)
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this doesn’t make sense. it can. unlike Stabbing that makes you stuck and are vulnerable to damage, knockback and CCs, with Pouncing you can move which means you can move around the boss to AVOID damage BUT still continue to do damage. Lunge + Cleave is a huge boost to slash damage, even if it’s only for 3-4 seconds that’s really alot.

if you think Stabbing doesn’t need PB then you are mistaken, at least with Pouncing you can still continue doing the skill EVEN if you are knocked back.

This is the kind of trade off we are talking about, if you are to make a SW-Pelt-Barb2-Hoplite, you are losing Pouncing, better Warcry and Frenzy just for 1 skill. Same with the others like what I’ve mentioned in my previous post.

My point with this is that they are the better channeling skills against stabbing as you can move by using them and avoid knockback/damages.

They actually are, both can be offensive tanks, the difference is the other one emphasizes on block, and the other one on evasion. Both are WB killers now in Rank 8. Again the point with this is that Stabbing works BETTER with DRAGOON than FENCER.


You are not getting the point that we are trying to explain. You are too fixated on Stabbing’s benefits and cannot see the downside of using and getting it. Which is really a lot.

As a parting reply and this will be my last one (it’s impossible to argue with someone who is too biased on his opinions and cannot and will not at least try to understand what others are trying to say), Hoplite-Fencer isn’t so bad, but that was before Rank 8. When Rank 8 was released, it changed everything. If one is building a Hoplite-Fencer, you must really be sure if you want to trade off what other classes can offer you against one skill. One WHOLE RANK for ONE SKILL. If yes, then by all means go for it.

That’s all. No offense OP. You can build and play what you like as long as you are having fun with it.

How could I help people who are already lost :disappointed: ? And it’s not like tons of topics were talking about the real MVP build for bossing (in Swordman tree).

Not only Fletcher, leather boss or not, and Fletcher is not the best class for bosses from Archer tree (not saying they are bad at bossing). I already said why on another topic, I don’t wanna bring this here again.

All my logic is already shown.
And I will reorganize all of these here to prevent the endless argument.(But it’s really helpful to my English communication )

0: Do whatever you like!

1.Q:Stabbing is not so power now or in the future.
A:[quote=“rhonin.wang, post:73, topic:324608”]
prep+stabbing is really a powerful skill combo(show upper).Besides you can also use sept etoiles after stabbing.
[/quote]

If you think you have enough pierce skill or really like to use other type skill or Attaque Compose then return 0.

2.Q: Is it Hop1 worth to loss the chance of Hl3 and Barb3?
A:
To deal with this, compare with the skill Barb3 and HL3 to Hop1 is needed.
I have shown my opinon of HL3 skill and Barb3.

And Pouncing has soooo long cooldown.
You can get Frenzy, Warcry and Seism at barb2 but will lose some damage.
For these skill:

Seism is good aoe skill.
If you really like Barb3 or Hl3 or think what i said is wrong, return 0.

3.Q: Fencer is lack of Aoe ability.
A:
if you really want to make up Aoe ability.Beside Seism:

And IMO:[quote=“rhonin.wang, post:58, topic:324608, full:true”]
The reason why i dont care about fencer’s aoe ability is because of the role fencer is in pve.When cleaning mobs in grinding and dungeon, you are an evasion tank supplying taunt. You will never have the aoe capability that comparable to wizard and archer.(and no one care your aoe ability)

WB, dungeon boss, Siaulai is the real place you can be a dps.
[/quote]

If you think you need pouncing or only 10 lvl Seism can make up your aoe ability, just return 0.

4.Q:Fencer need more types of damage skill.
No, i think fencer has many powerful pierce skills and pierce buff and pierce debuff and pierce attribute. I dont need other type skills at all. Even dealing with plate enemy(little high damage strike skills) and even with Epee no longer has 100% uptime.

If you think multiple damage skills is important, you can choose barb2 or hl2 or corsair or return 0.

5.Q:Stabbing is hard to use/ some boss is always running.
A: yes, and pouncing is also hard to use if you want to take full damage.
How to use and when to use is depending on you.
If you think stabbing is not suit for you, plz return 0.


If there are other questions i didn’t cover, just tell me, i may add.

In this forum, people always think stabbing and Hop awful to fencer.
But in the forum of Taiwan and China, barb3-fencer has little supporters.

This forum needs more different voice. The reason you are not a hop-fencer cant be the reason i dont like it.

I tried to use a barb-fencer and abandoned in barb3. Everyone has their prefer and the people want to play fencer need more voices.

I really like this guide,this guide make me begin thinking of Hop.

But @minjuleex stop updating, maybe becaues without supporter.

Maybe because this is not the top DPS build for Fencers. But you can play whatever you want on this game, you are free to do builds people don’t support.

I dont care there is someone support or not.
I just give out my reasons and my views and i will be appreciate if it is helpful.
And every build has it’s advantage. There is not a absolute.

I just want to show Hop-fencer build’s advantage.

We only said our opinions regarding that, I don’t see any problems with it. We know both the advantages and disadvantages of it, and the reason why a lot of people are ignoring hopC1, your topic title is kinda misleading with your intentions however

You are rigth. The topic title is a little misleading. I will edit it.

i guess i would have to see it in action then instead of just theory posts or whatever the other discussion was because this has been the case from first hand experience so far

The majority here dont take hoplite is because if you take hoplite1, only 1 skill usefull stabbing
But if you take hl3 / barb3 you can have more

But just like other said, its up to you, because whats the fun playing someone else build

I think that since you are already going for hoplite, just go hoplite 2 to get spear lunge and become the absolute stabbing man, don’t even think about wasting one circle for just Stabbing. I can even imagine the new WB meta parties carrying a Pardoner for Discerning Evil (or even better Krivis 3 Pardoner for Melstis too) to maintain Serpentine/Spear Lunge debuffs for a longer time. Swapping also is not that hard when you get used to it.

But If you don’t have interest in tryhard boss hunting, stabbing (IMO) is not that practical and a little bit of overkill for someone who already has a great set of piercing skills. I’m most sure that Lv 10 Warcry’d Composees + Prep Sept (or the new skills) are going to be stronger than a super mega stabbing when grinding/farming open field (flexibility and mobility while tanking and jumping). This is assuming someone don’t want to get ride of peltasta or want to fit barb 2 + corsair for utility or even highlander 2 + corsair as I did :confused:, pelt 2, rodeleros and entc. Wasting one rank of hoplite for just Stabbing that you will end up wishing you had hoplite c2 is a big no.

Check this guy, Pelt c1, Hoplite c2, Barb c1. All the Peltasta’s c1 utility with taunt and high evasion, Hoplite c2 for stabbing madness with spear lunge (and a little bit more damage from skill lv 10), barb c1 to cover pierce’s main weakness (cloth mobs) with Stun (also nice to have) + Cleave [+50% slash debuff and +50 critical rate who also helps a lot and a good burst since the damage on stunned targets is a huge % boost]. Just pierce everything and if cloth mobs comes when Epee Stance is down, Stun, cleave, Flanconnade. That’s how I would roll a Hoplite Fencer, there’s also the Dual Stance Fencer Hop 3 guy but I don’t like hoplite 3, IMO they only work on Finestra Dragoon builds and Epee Stance cooldown just made things worst since hop 2 is more than enough for that super stabbing combo.

Hop3 is at rank 5 so Hop3>Fencer3 is viable. Again I must remind you that AOE ratio and crit rate are harder to acquire than evasion. You can look at the cost of making 2 Sissel, a Max Peta and minimum 6 Green Gems to know why Finestra is really important. Plus, Fencers do not have something convenient as Swift Step. It’s way harder for Fencers to reach 80-100% crit rate than an Archer.

Furthermore, Epee doubles all crit damage. So the more crit rate, the better. 100% crit = well you know it already

That’s why I would only ever choose Hop in a Fencer build if IMC changed Finestra.

PS: Did I mention crit resist? Unless Balestra Fente gives 100% uptime on crit resist reduction, more crit rate is always priority

It’s 50% uptime if you didn’t know and it’s like -30% or something

I agree on AoE but I really disagree about crit rate . In my experience as a high DEX build crit rate for Fencer is not priority since most fencers are using DEX build.
what’s the point of +150 crit rate if they already have 400+ base crit rate?
crit att is what they want, sure the more crit rate the better but the dmg is not high if the crit att is low

Actually, I have a sissel and its not functioning very well since I don’t miss… so I don’t get its frenzy bonus
Sissel is much better on high STR low DEX build like Dopple/Dragoon IMO

At the moment, the only viable skill from hoplite to fencer is stabbing and yes, stabbing works better with a high DEX char, as its attribute is clear +25% evasion and MDEF. Less interruption, more guarantee of full damage. Doesn’t mean I encourage any fencers to take Hoplite just for this skill tho…

In the end, I understand your point tho, finestra is a very good skill and if its viable to other weapons outside spear than yes, everyone with high STR is recommended to have it.

PS : The price of items doesn’t reflect its rarity, evasion items are fewer (boots, magas sword, rapid bangle, and few others) and with only small numbers evasion than crit rate
calculation evasion cap is 1100 eva, other than boots there are no +100 evasion items, much higher than crit rate cap

If you know some items with high evasion please share, I need them

@rhonin.wang Oh thank you for comment, I didn’t stop updating. Just currently waiting for hop spear throw buff and fencer c3 to further update the guide.

haha, thank you for your advice. I already post his another vedio upper in this topic and i really like Hop2-barb1 build, and im thinking about if changing barb1 to corsair or not.
Barb1 is really good, but corsair has utility ability.

I am really looking forward your update and new vedio !
And love every element in your topic! (rwby, Hop-fencer, chalili… ):wink:
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Thank you for your support! I will try my best!