Tree of Savior Forum

Highlander Skill Questions

So i’m interested in making a Swordsman with a large investment into the Highlander skill tree. Not so much for the damage but for the effects of the skills. I’m having trouble finding some effects and formulas for the skills however. So here’s my list of questions. I’m sorry that there are quite a few…

Wagon Wheel:

  • What is the difference between a level 1 and level 15 Wagon Wheel? Is it only the damage? Or is the the height, knockback, and duration of the launch effected by the skill level as well?

Cartar Stroke:

  • How important is collision for this skill?

  • Does knockback scale with level of the skill or is it always constant?

  • Just curious, but how does a lvl 15 full charge do against monsters post 220+, assuming you haven’t been mauled to death by then.

Cross Guard:

  • How long does the guard duration last when holding the key? Is this affected by levels put into the skill?

  • Is it worth getting past level 4 ~ 6 for additional block ratings?

Crosscut:

  • How strong is the bleed effect in late game?

  • Does the Bleed damage scale with levels of the skill?

  • Does the duration of the bleed effect scale with the level of the skill?

  • Does the bleed scale with Strength or other variables? (You’re free to just drop a formula here. I can’t seem to find one.)

  • Does the Bleed have any other benefits other than pairing well with Skyliner?

Skull Swing:

  • Does the Armor Break effect duration scale with the level of the skill? How long is the duration?

  • Does collision apply to this skill?

wagon. damage only. get lvl 1 if you want cc

cartar. dont get it to lvl 15. it is terrible post 220+ check ToS base for damage difference. knockback doesnt scale i think. collision is good if you get them clumped and behind the wall.

cross guard. very good underrated skill. scales with your level. i think it’s 10s holding correct me if im wrong.

crosscut. bleed scales with strength. bleed doesnt scale with skill level. additional DoT is good seeing as our damage in the future sucks right now. Only skyliner and the c3 skill from sw AFAIK.

skull swing. the duration scales. it’s permanent on normal mobs. on bosses/other players. it is about +5s per level at lvl 5 it’s 30s. no collision whatsoever.

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Thanks for the reply and the information. Saved me from a load of trial and error.

Edit: Would you recommend maxing Cross Guard? Or leaving it at some level? o:

mine i left 5 remaining skill points. because maybe vertical slash will be good in the future.

i didn’t bother to lvl moulinet. it is downright terrible 260+ even with the attribute.

max skyliner. i got 1 lvl 1 wagon. cartar to 3. the rest it depends on what you want you got about 26 skill points.

pve i’d max crosscut if not just lvl 1 for bleed activation. crown is also good

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I would say leave cross guard at lvl 5 if you have lots of STR in your build but keep it as high as you can if you’re not very focused in STR.

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Yeah, i’d heard Moulinet was pretty bad as you level. Especially considering later skills. I’m going in mostly for the debuffs/crowd control though, so it’s not to big of a loss.

I’m planning on
1 Wagon Wheel
3 Cartar Stroke
13/14 Crown
5 Cross Guard
10 Skyliner
1 Cross Cut
5 Skull Swing
1 Vertical Slash

6 points left.
For now. May tweak it depending on how useful Skull Swing and Vertical Slash turn out. I saw in another thread somewhere that Vertical Slash’s debuff count is a static amount as opposed to a percentage though. Not sure when that was though.

How much block would be the dream number for higher levels? I haven’t seen to much on the subject of block rates tbh.

At level 130, using cross guard lvl 5 with a full CON build i get around ~615 block rate (can’t check precise number cause server is off). That’s a pretty meh-ish number. I usually get around ~40% blocks from mobs around my level which isn’t really that good at all (i’d rather move around and dodge attacks manually than try to block). If you go a build with no STR at all (like I did), I’d say either max cross guard or skip it completely.

I’m going to take a wild guess and say something around 800+ block should be decent enough for my level.

EDIT: I might need to review these numbers when server comes back up because I don’t think cross guard actually gets block bonus from CON builds, but i’m not entirely sure.

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Alright, thank you. That’s a real eye opener though. I guess i’ll make a spread sheet to see where I should get my Str to for each level benchmark.

Edit: It doesn’t. Formula is Str + (Character Level x 3) + (Skill Level x 45) for block rate. 2 Handed swords don’t gain Block Rate from Con either, I believe.

Yeah but that’s the thing. Cross guard formula doesn’t include CON but CON naturally increases block rate, that’s why I wanted to check :smile:

Highlander c3 here,

  • Cartar Stroke damage after lvl 3 charge is barely noticeable (prob bugged) so go only for 3 points, try to use pain barrier before for a safe charging. Dont be afraid to release lvl 1 charge, it still does a lot of damage. However in order to max its damage, you need to remove its knocback with the attribute.

  • Vertical Slash is bugged and its not calculating correctly the current debuffs on the mob/boss. Not worth putting a single point here. No matter how many debuffs you add, save your SP.

  • Moulinet crit attribute is bugged, so its actually only counting itself. If you are heavy on crit rate its better to turn it off.

  • Skull Swing is amazing for boss fights but only if you max it to get the 30 seconds debuff.

  • Wagon Wheel is nice for CC or for repositioning mobs

  • Cross Guard i suggest not using this, and instead taking a Peltasta rank here;s why:

Cross Guard

  • Needs either a lot of STR or a lot of points to actually block something
  • Durations is not permanent (Less than 10 seconds)
  • Consumes SP each time is used
  • Will not give you as much block as Peltasta C, unless you invest a lot.

Peltasta C Block

  • Does not consumes SP
  • Infinite duration, as long as you hold the button
  • You can increase its effectiveness with attributes instead of skill points
  • For going Peltasta you get Swashbuckling for rounding mobs
  • If you are planning to get decent DEX, you can use Guardian attribute for a big pump to your evasion without having to go 1H+Shield.

Plus if you choose a defensive stats 1H+Shield, you can swap to them for quicker recovery. (Example Bendras Sword + Beetleback / Sage Wall / Fortress or even Ludas Shield which is easier to get).

Thats my personal opinion

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Moulinet hits 5 times btw. People often forget that. That’s your P.ATK x5 + 515 per swing. Totaling +2575 damage.

Multi-hit skills are very strong.

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Ah, that’s why everyone only takes it up to lvl 3. Wonder if they’ll be fixing that in the future. The removed knockback gets the most possible damage? Does that mean the collision damage that would usually come from walls is applied automatically with that attribute? Neat. The amount of hits from higher charges doesn’t change it though?

I’ll be sure to stray away from Vertical Slash from now then. Until a patch or something covers that issue.

So Moulinet only counts as a 60% chance crit rate then. Will keep that in mind.

Skull Swing is getting maxed out then. Glad to see that it’s as good an effect as it looks.

How much would a lot of block be for blocking? The numbers I see around the forums are vague at best.

10 seconds seems like plenty of time time for me, but i’ll definitely consider getting Pelt C1 anyway.

@varuna

Doesn’t that mean you could get level 1 Moulinet and still get a hefty investment out of the skill? I’m assuming that the P.Atk x5 is the heftiest part of the formula in the long run. Or would the extra 2575 damage be enough to jsutify getting it toward higher levels?

@TheCurrySauseBandit

I would put 10/10 on moulinet, use the crit attribute if you are low on crit rate, turn it off if you are heavier than 60%.

If you take Peltasta dont put any points on Cross Guard. If you dont take Peltasta then try to increase Cross Guard to more than 1k block and see if that does it for you (will depend on skill lvl, STR and block rate, which multiplies your current block) otherwise increase even more.

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Yes, you could just invest 1 point into moulinet and still get pretty decent damage from it… but it’s better to just max it anyway. That extra +2575 damage is quite a bit if you factor in that the skill is supposed to have a high crit rate.

If your basic attack damage deals 500 per hit, just add +515 * 5.

500 + 515 * 5 = 5075 damage. The attribute of Moulinet increases crit rate (bugged tho?) and would further make this skill even better. Almost guaranteeing 7612 of damage with a cooldown of 35 secs.

The same thing goes for Cartar Stroke. People tend to look at the damage and be like derp, it’s only 385 damage at LV.5 but…

It deals 4 hits per overheat. That’s your P.ATK * 4 + 385 (Lv.5 Cartar Stroke). This is why people often tend to just get level 1 Catar Stroke. Because it hits a total of 8 times and scales with your P.ATK more than it does with skill level.

If your P.ATK is at around 500…

500 + 160 * 8 = 5k of damage. That’s with only level 1 Cartar Stroke.
With level 5 Cartar Stroke… 500 + 315 * 8 = 6520 damage.

I would recommend:

pve wise this is fine between 100-200. after that there’s a debate whether to lvl cross guard and crown, since moulinet is pretty terrible. then again our damage still sucks at 280 even with 10 stacks max DoV and lvl 10 cyclone.

just dont put points into vertical slash for now. reserve that 5 skill points

Well, there’s really nothing else to dump the points into. I mean, you could dump the points into cross cut or cartar stroke but it wouldn’t boost the damage much anyway.

@Varuna

Ah, I see. That would make quite a difference then. I think I value a high level Crown and Cross Guard though. The 30 seconds of Shock, considering what Shock does, just sounds juicy to me. We’ll see though. Still got alot of build to develop @_@.

@jan_mudzki

I’m not to worried about damage with current swordsman tiers. From my standpoint, the skills we have now are leveling tools to support utility skills that will scale with us throughout the game. With more emphasis on damaging skills in late late tier classes. That’s my hope anyway, since no damaging skill will scale well later in comparison to higher tiers later on imo.

Anyway, thank you all for the help. I’ll be build tinkering from here on out then. c:. See ya.

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At the moment, a good meta for highlander builds use swordman for buffs, highlander for utility, and the final circles for damage.

As a swordman, if you intend to take cross guard, include level 1 thrust into your build. Thrust provides pierce damage, which you will lack since there are no other skills that will provide it for you, and you will be unable to equip spears. It costs 8 sp, has no cooldown, is cheap to attribute up, and has several other beneficial effects. When you stagger enemies with cross guard, every thrust attack will do double damage (stagger debuff), and every thrust will do a multi hit (thrust attribute). In thrust’s case, the multi hit is calculated with the original hit, meaning if you crit the first thrust, the second attack (the multi hit proc) will also crit. Thrust’s bleed sucks though, so don’t sword2 to get restrain just for thrust bleed. (though restrain for it’s own sake can be pretty good).

In other words, if you cross guard stagger into thrust spam against a leather enemy, your damage will be multiplied by 1.5 for pierce vs leather, 2.0 for stagger debuff, and ~1.75 for the second hit (the second hit will never do as much damage as the first for reasons you can find in multi hit mechanics). That adds up to a whopping 525% damage for 8 sp, before leveling the % damage attribute at all. Add in the % buff Highlanders get on crit attacks and this adds up to some fair damage.

One other great thing about cross guard is that staggered enemies are immobile. That’s right, even bosses will be unable to move after you stagger them, provided they aren’t immune to the debuff, and I haven’t found one yet that is stagger immune.

But the real reason cross guard is great isn’t for your own benefit, because if you go highlander you are probably sacrificing cata, pelta, or hoplite. Highlander can do damage, yes, but their best role is actually utility. If you cross guard stagger, skull swing an enemy, then your hoplite ally hits the spear lunge into stabbing, you call that the eraser, because boss HP will just evaporate.

The other great utility skill for highlander is Crown, which I tested and found that it doesn’t just reduce target int and spirit, it annihilates it. On 120 spirit, 70 int cleric, crown reduced both stats to One. Why is this good? Int is magic damage. I took my l 190 to the 90 dungeon to farm necro (easy anyway, but regardless) when I crowned Necro, his magic attacks went from doing triple digits to 1s. I lv 15d my crown, so the debuff lasts longer than the cooldown.

That’s icing on the cake compared to what the reduction in the spirit stat is worth. In PvE, spirit is block penetration. You crown a mob, and you erase it’s block pen, making your cross guard (or shield, if you sword and board) that much more effective. PvP, crown is that plus mana pool, plus many cleric buffs are effected by the caster’s spirit. If you crown somone with high spirit, you could erase half their mana pool and decimate their regen. Provided PvP fights last longer than 10-15 seconds, it is a definite advantage.

Catar and wagon wheel can be pretty useful too. Wagon is a good juggle, and you can combine it with bash and dash to keep your enemies knockdown. Catar isn’t terrific PvE as a utility skill, though it is good for damage, especially since it is blunt type, so use it on plate targets. It’s not great in PvP as a damage skill, since you have to charge it (though if you are on point with bash and dash, you can easily get a l3 charge onto a single target). Catar is decent as PvP utility though, since l1 is enough to send enemies flying and your 2HS is going to hit multiple enemies, and you can change your facing while you charge. I’ve used it like so: Make sure knockback is enabled. Rush just behind the center of gravity of enemy formation. Provided you aren’t ccd or dead, charge catar and turn so you face back into their party. After .5 seconds, let it fly and send 3-4 of their squishes flying out of their formation and into the waiting arms of your formation. Works in reverse also, make enemies who want to get in your face gtfo.

The last utility would be the crosscut bleed. That ■■■■ hurts bad.

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3 in Cross Guard is enough. You can level the rest from the passive to earn 1 Defense per level and it is very cheap to purchase them, unlike other skills.

I personally like the high level in Crown, how much duration do you get out of that? I have 3 in there and it is working. I actually like fighting magic enemies because they can be killed very quickly (Bash Lv 3 or Crown). I have max’d Cross Slash and it does pretty good damage. But in later levels I just find Cross Slash to do good damage at like levels 220 and 240. I also have Zorn from C2 Doppel and that also does another Shock so I can have a good 14 or 16 seconds to kill off magic users (they die very fast since I have Deeds up to level 8).

AVOID Vertical Slash. Absolutely horrible DPS and doesn’t scale.

Lastly about people who talk about having high or full Dex … Really man, avoid this. Here’s is way:

  1. Swordies is a Strength class. For EVERY rank after rank 1 you get 10% increase to your Strength. You get 0% increase to your Dex. At Rank 7, you have a free 60% Strength increase while you get nothing for Dex.

  2. Dex will start to become worthless after levels 200 and it will slowly make your Swordies crit become less effective - you will crit less. Notice, you will crit less. That’s because Dex contributes to Crit Rating which is a flat base stat, it also gives you Evasion which is great but that will also become less effective at higher levels. There is a max level for it as well

  3. And best of all, Strength gives you a lot of benefits but mostly your base damage will increase and your maximum crit damage will increase. Strength will give you 100% benefit of flat damage and it will out DPS a high or full Dex characters at levels over 200, 220, 240, 260, and so on. Dex is GREAT for low levels, but becomes less effective at higher levels.

  4. Because of the 60% increase from Rank 7 for a Swordies, say at 200 strength, for every 4 or 3 points (can’t remember) you put in you get bonus Strength points. And at 300+ strength I believe for every 2 points of strength you put in you get a bonus in there (more than 1 point for sure).

Last thing I want to say is that if you are going to build a Fencer then drop all of this and look up Fencer builds and stats. I know Fencers do need Dex and they benefit from it. Especially tanking Fencers. But the Strength 60% at Rank 7 still applies even to Fencers because they are Swordies. If someone can fill in information on Fencers would be great.

I currently have my stats like this for Doppel 2H Swords. 4:1:2 with Str / Con / Dex.