Tree of Savior Forum

Highlander or Barbarian into Doppel 2?

Class and Rank Swordsman
#21

In practice none of them really do any damage compared to stacked archers.
Highlander does outdps barb a little on bleedable mobs but that’s it. Meanwhile he’s contributing with armor crash, pierce stagger and crown making even some magic lv 270 world bosses deal 1 damage (and blocking hits is vastly superior to running around bosses constantly). Barb skills have too long CD to be really good unfortunately. Neither frenzy or warcry have any reasonable uptime sadly and their real damage comes from doppel circles which is what highlanders will probably take as well.

This philosophy on low rank classes not scaling is really hurting any dps oriented classes on early ranks. Same deal with pyros.

#22

You can have High C1 and Barb in the same Build without missing a beat giving. Getting Cross Guard and Crown -_-.

Only way to not have Block is to go C2 Swordsman since Pel and Highlander both have it.

#23

I’m not even gonna bother trying to correct the amount of misinformation going on lol.

I have no idea if you’re trying to argue against me or what, but you prolly shouldn’t as you’ve already proven to be extremely uninformed about what you post. You shouldn’t be posting things you are clearly ignorant of.

#24

What about my post is uninformed? All of that is true.

#25

A couple things aren’t.

You do realise barbs have warcry that reduces armor to mobs around you and stays on the target for 40 seconds so great for bosses.

Not sure why you’re making this point unless your saying compared to barb you have strike damage? Highlander have 3 strike damage skills, barbs have 3 strike damage skills.

Not true. The only thing that would force you to get highlander at rank 2 for barb is if you plan to get doppleC2 for the +50% 2h swords crit atk passive to make Zucken, Zornhau and Redel Hit harder, which is only 1 build of many.

I’m wondering if people are comparing their experiences from kTOS where the swordsman class has been buffed and wondering why we’re all like “highlanders damage is not as good as barb”

#26

Yes, we know this, it’s been a problem for a long time, but not the point of this thread.

Again barbs have warcry for lowering defence. Barbs can get c1 highlander for pierce stagger and crown as well if they want.

This guy gets it.

So far there’s only 2 people that have posted in this thread that play both high c3 and barb c3, myself and this guy, everyone else seems to be just giving their theory’s and opinions on which is better.

#27

I’m a barb c3 doppel and a highlander c2 squire. I know exactly what I’m talking about.

And both my chars are over 200.

Some of your info is also completely wrong btw.

#29

Cross guard for highlander is awesome every single boss that you can block you can hold its down because of stagger and let your teammate do all the damage its also double the pierce damage

#30

@varuna Can you point out which? I might actually be wrong I’m just curious.
Or was that directed @ Daays? lol

#31

You’re comparing a full defense strip to a 30 defense strip?

Bosses/mobs end game can have 400+ defense. Highlander outstrips Barbs in that regard.

You’re now comparing useless skills. You don’t max helm chopper as a Barb. Ever. You don’t have the skill points for it. It’s better to max cleave.
Stomping Kick is awful. Awful Damage, awful cool down time, awful animation, 1 hit, and has a modifier of -10% to 0%. Yes, if you don’t jump at max height you do less than 100%.
Giant Swing is not a DPS skill. Even if it was, it has a 120 second cooldown.

Cartar Stroke does 4 hits and has the 50% T2 modifier.

The only reason to go barb 3 is to get dopple 2, so that you can get 2x attack power from warcry and frenzy (effectively giving you the same damage as stripping a target with 400 defense).

The only correct thing someone said was that if the mob can’t be bled, then Highlanders damage is awful. And he’s 100% correct.

#32

Pls already, stop spreading horrible swordsman advice. This is the reason why 90% of the swordsman are baddies. Because baddies like you keep spreading retarded information around creating more baddies.

It doesn’t matter if you can armor break because everyone benefits from the Armor break including Barbarians or any other physical attack based class in your party lol. Are you stupid or what? You don’t benefit from Warcry or Frenzy unless you got a linker.

Even if you armor break, Lv280 bosses have at most 450 defense. Barbarians can use Warcry which boosts their P.ATK by +330, then if they wanted to, they can further boost it with Frenzy with up to +400 attack power.

Do the math here man. +730 P.ATK just from buffs then when they use Deeds of Valor, it will double that to +1460 additional P.ATK.

That is just alone from buffs and this can be easily combined with Cyclone. Their Cyclone will do literally 2-3 times more damage than you can even do. I’m not even counting Pouncing, Seism, Helm Chopper or Cleave in that mix either because that will add into the total amount of DPS. Hell, I’m not even talking about basic attacking either which a Barb will deal twice your damage.

Highlanders only form of DPS comes from Skyliner lol. That’s 1 skill with any relevant damage while the rest of the skills are all debuffs or support moves. Highlanders also have way less crowd control and AoE attacks so their damage will be extremely limited and concentrated to only a few mobs since skyliners has crap AoE.

So please stop spreading around retarded information and just stop posting at all because you are not helping anybody nor contributing anything to the topic.

#33

@daays
You’re all over the place with your explaining I don’t even know what your trying to say any more. It’s like your trying to answer every question at once and you just type what ever words come out.

Where did this come from? Noone was talking about those skills being good.

See?

#34

much theorycraft, because you’re permanently going to have 10 enemies clustered around you everytime warcry is off cooldown, lol

People also keep forgetting to mention skills like frenzy and wc have like 30-40% uptime or take time to buildup.

I dunno why people even bother discussing things like this, neither of the 2 realistically do any damage when it matters anyway.

#35

I play both high c3 and barb c3

Lets me clarify for you

Currently highlander is only do slightly more damage to boss thats bleedable but alot worse to barb on mob and unbleedable boss with skyliner cd (itos only)

If you play high c3 you will find yourself out of skill rotation really fast which is why its bad to mob

The main damage skill of highlander is skyliner on bleeding target and carter
If target is unbleedable its highlander nightmare, moulinet dmg is not so good with thats animation and cd, vertical slashis not even worth a point

Yes, skyline do alot of dmg on bleed but your skill to cause bleeding is too long cd (28sec) and you can only spam skyliner 3 tjme before its on cd, which mean in 30 sec you can only use 6 skyliner and need to wait another 28 sec for crosscut on again

While all barb main dmge skill have shorter cd and 2 overheat so you can easily mange

Warcry and frenzy is also great skill for boss
(Almost all mob summon trap which you can cast warcry on)

And pouncing is a really awesome boss killing skilll

So in the end if i compare barb to itos highlander

Farming

Barb>>>>highlander

Boss (bleedable)

Highlander>= barb (a little more or draw depend of boss armor)

Sustain damage

Barb>>>>>>highlander due to high cd

But if skyline got 0 cd

All state of the game

Highlander>>>>>barb

Even better with ktos change
high3>barbc1 for cleave 50% slash dmg

#36

It’s not theorycrafting. It’s basic math and apparently you nor some of these people can’t math right. If you don’t think literally tripling your damage output is “realistic” you’re a moron.

You can warcry traps, you can also warcry wizard’s icewall. It’s not that hard and easier than you think it is lol.

A lot of these people arguing against a Barb’s damage doesn’t even have a Barb, that’s the funny part. Stop bringing in your misguided opinions.

#37

Barb. Always, highlander isn’t worth it in the long run.

This build is OPTIMAL.

#38

But I am planning to get Doppel 2.

Or are you suggesting a different rank 6/7?

#39

yeah that’s basically how it is right.now. but unfortunately trying to make melee 2h builds work right now is an effort in futility. my barb is rotting in my quartets ever since I rolled an archer since in the long run it just doesn’t offer enough.

#41

What is your current path though

You can go barb3 then doppel2

But honestly for curent itos you better go archer or spear build swordman since its superior in everyway now

You need to wait for ktos patch so swordy will be viable

Well with ktos best dps for twohanded sword is

Sw1>high3>barb1(for 50% slash dmg)>doppel2

#42

Well this is indeed true currently i stop playing doppel at lv 255 but stil do mission and hunt for box

I building cannoneer which now lv 190 but honestly eventhough its deal more dmg i still prefer the play style of swman (its suck at dmg but i like to face mon and wreck a havock)

SO if we get ktos buff which got +30%STR dmg and 50% slash dmg i can see my swordy shine again

Just wait for the glory i guess