Tree of Savior Forum

High Guard vs. Restrain - Best for PVP?

If you could only pick one.

Do you mean if it’s better to pick Swordsman C2 (and maybe 3) or Peltasta C2 (and maybe C3)?

The question is too vague, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, it depends on what you’re going for.

Generally:
In PVP you want to knock down, crowd control and stop the opponent as soon as possible.

Restrain works well with AoE/Multihit to stun-lock enemies

High Guard will only make you survive longer against physical attackers, at the cost of dealing less damage with most stills (except Umbo Blow and Rim Blow which are rank 2 skills) and possibly letting them live to kill you.

Umbo Blow’s attribute chance to stun is 5%, only with that skill

Restrain has a larger chance (20% at lvl 5 and 40% at lvl 10?) to stun with either auto attack or skills

High Guard will not protect you from magic and Cataphracts/Lancers will be able to surpass your block as well.

I don’t know enough to elaborate more, but I do believe it’s pretty common to find phrases like “People only go Swordsman C3 if they’re PVP oriented” so that should say something.

How so? I have Pelt2 on another alt and eventually get killed by cataphracts/lancers when they get through block, but I still block them fairly consistently. Have you played w/ Pelt2 to make that assertion?

I think what @alexmartinezquintani is implying is that you’re only countering specific builds (DEX archers/swordies) w/ blocking - and these builds are most of the time not the real PIA for cataphract builds. It’s the clerics and wizards, and blocking is useless against magic.

So in your opinion, there is no other pvp build than Swordy2-3 then? Since they must be the only way to CC clerics/wizards. Armor or more CON doesn’t help?

Unfortunately, yes. I think that’s the core reason why it’s the meta for PVP sword except for Murmillo builds but that’s because they can tank both physical and magic really well and have a lot of CC skills.

You only get pelt2 for pvp if your going for murmillo…if cata3…restrain is a must…

Played Pel 3 (Not until Murmillo, which I’ll get to later) and had your same experience, which is the point I make.

They kill you eventually, you just survive for longer, which isn’t beneficial to your team.

Thousands of HP didn’t save me from WIzards/Clerics

AS for others, you won’t win until you kill them.

I’ve had to remove my shield because the other team can’t kill me, but my entire team is dead and my block is just wasting everyone’s time because the others can heal/pot away any damage I make.

What ZeroFoxGiven says is pretty much on point, specially considering that for every Swordsman circle you take for Restrain, you’re also taking 5 more levels on Pain Barrier, which reduces the enemy’s CC on you.

This is why people go “It depends on what you’re going for” when the question is too vague.

Wether Restrain or High Guard is better for your character, depends on your character.

I think high guard’s problem is that it’s a flat + to block. If they make it percentage based, I’d feel more comfortable with recommending it.

Still, now that it’s only -5% PAtk, it’s really not that bad.

Problem is, restrain is really good too. You need to be aware that restrain at lv5 while it doesn’t offer you a full stun lock, the slow debuff for 12s will come in REALLY handy when you are doing rush.

Another problem with high guard is that it’s like 50% uptime which is kinda like restrain.

In the end, I would go for restrain since it seems like gems can cover up for high guard’s flat 190 block rate and 50 PDef.

high guard gives you flat block, while initiate gives 75% block chance and reduces your block by 50%
not to mention additional 40% block by cataphract mastery
block is useless in pvp against lancers tbh, better get evasion.

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Sorry Alyosha :frowning: it’s just how the game is right now. Until the developers do something balance wise to answer magic damage not being able to be blocked or evaded our options are a bit more limited pvp wise.

unfortunately they said themselves that they do not plan to change that in a Q&A a few weeks ago.

xD well no wonder pvp is broken :smile: